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  • Wilkins vs Burns vs Sweat vs ?

    This thread is NOT intended to pick on Grier for his pick but, to ask if you would have done the same or, something different. The jury will be out for a few years. However, the time to agree or disagree is now. Pick now or, forever hold your "peace."

    Wilkins was a good and safe pick. He will fit in very nicely with Godchaux,VT, and maybe Norton and/or Spence. The 3-4 kicks in here to increase his value as he can move outside, inside and all around the house.

    Burns was my pick. I value an edge over a inside, even more so with a OLB/DE. In a 3-4, as per our LB coach, we have NO OLB. He does not see one on the roster (pre draft). He was taken a few picks later, and I believe we will regret it.

    Sweat is outstanding BUT, the medical issue was worth passing (for this team). Too high a risk for rebuilding, JMO.

    ?- Add someone else.

    Picks?


  • #2
    I think Wilkins was the right pick, Great attitude, probowl type player, anchors the middle, stuffs the Run, plays multiple positions on the line and a great piece to build around.. safe pick, great player and a position of serious need..

    Comment


    • #3
      I tend to like Edge over Tackle because I feel there are the Taylors and Godchaux in 4-7 who can contribute not necessarily dominate. I only researched Wilkins after the draft but what a high Character and intelligent guy we selected. Unlike Harris this guy can play. I’m fine with this pick.

      Now what I woukd have done (mind you this is not knowing the 20/20 hindsight) is trade with Eagles to 25 and pick up that extra 2nd, use that on Sweat since the Redskins moved to 26 to get him we would have beaten them to the punch. Then Grier’s 2nd round trade with Saints and now we have 2 late 2nd rounders, one for Rosen the other for the best DT available.
      Last edited by AquaXI; 04-29-2019, 08:04 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I like the Wilkins pick, but didn't love it. If they wouldn't have gotten Rosen then I think Haskins should ahve been the pick, but my guess is they knew somehow some way they were getting Rosen, so I'm good there.

        I know I'm a Nole, but I think Burns has the ability to be special. He has an amazing first step.

        With that being said, Wilkins was the safe pick, plus he will be a locker room leader and I would bet have a C on his chest by year 2. Hard to argue that other than you don't win championships with a DT...

        Comment


        • Finatic
          Finatic commented
          Editing a comment
          I don't think you win a championship without a DT. If you can't stop the run, and keep your LBs clean then your defense has no chance. Considering how bad we have been against the run it was a huge need. Everyone mentions Godcheaux and Taylor etc. but we had that bad defense with those guys in the line up. I think it was a brilliant pick.

      • #5
        I am happy with Wilkins. He is a safe pick and he will be a team leader. Our run defense has been a joke for the past few years. Wilkins will help to improve that and he can also create interior pressure which is something we have lacked for a very long time.

        Comment


        • #6
          No complaint with Wilkins whatsoever at #13... Raiders reported that we had a verbal deal with them in place for the #4 pick if "our guy" was there, which meant we were after either Murray, Bosa, or Williams.

          Considering Grier's recent drafting history of big school winners, that probably translates to Bosa or Williams. You can make a strong case for it being Bosa as well given his penchant for OSU players, but he also loves him some Bama boys. Wilkins being a winner is no deviation though. If anyone would be outside the norm, it would be Murray.


          Comment


          • #7
            I am good with Wilkins. Has the tape and results to justify that pick. I love that he is a solid guy too.........although truth be told when people go overboard on thzt instead of talent or production, gives me bad memories of drafting the Ginn family

            i wanted Sweat who reminded me of what Dion Jordan was supposed to be, and that was supposed to be Jason Taylor. But i know nothing and will be rooting for Wilkins to cause Havoc.

            Comment


            • #8
              I think they wanted Wilkins all along. Weeks before the draft they talked about him being able to work multiple fronts. I wanted 1 of the 3 Clemson DL so I am happy. I'm not a fan of Rosen, but hey the Fins took a QB by trade. I also like they have sights set on a 2020 QB. Just keep getting after it each draft. How many times did the Niners, Packers,Patriots traded extra QB"S. Think of this. If a QB goes down this year we can Trade Fitz for a draft pick. He's veteran that can win games. They might get a 3rd for him. Keep your options open. Even on other positions. We are going nowhere. Trade to get more picks.

              Comment


              • #9
                Wilkins was my pick and I am sticking to it.

                The FO wanted Rosen in the 2nd and D in the 1st

                They did a really good job with the first two picks

                Haskins and Winovich might have been my first two picks


                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Kato View Post
                  I am good with Wilkins. Has the tape and results to justify that pick. I love that he is a solid guy too.........although truth be told when people go overboard on thzt instead of talent or production, gives me bad memories of drafting the Ginn family

                  i wanted Sweat who reminded me of what Dion Jordan was supposed to be, and that was supposed to be Jason Taylor. But i know nothing and will be rooting for Wilkins to cause Havoc.
                  Agreed... and if you look, you have a solid, high class, high production guy at each level of the defense now in Wilkins, Raekwon, and Minkah.

                  We're not going to be playing a fixed 3-4, nor a 4-3, but a combination of fronts and alignments and I'm pretty sure a ton of dime. Defense will probably look a lot like what we've seen in NE...
                  Base: 3-3-5:Wilkins-Godchaux-Taylor Kiko-Raekwon-Baker X-McCain-Fitz-TJ-Jones
                  Nickel 3-3-5:Harris-Wilkins-Taylor AVG-Raekwon-Baker X-Rowe-McCain-Fitz-Jones
                  Nickel 2-4-5:Wilkins-Taylor AVG-Raekwon-Baker-Harris X-Rowe-McCain-Fitz-Jones

                  Roles will probably vary by formation/grouping and down & distance.

                  Translating what Flores worked with in NE and mapping that to our guys:

                  NE -> Fins

                  Interior DL

                  Malcom Brown -> Davon Godchaux
                  Lawrence Guy -> Christian Wilkins (different style, same alignments)
                  Danny Shelton -> ???
                  Adam Butler -> Vincent Taylor, Akeem Spence

                  DE
                  Trey Flowers -> ???
                  Adrian Clayborn -> Tank Carradine
                  Keionta Davis -> Jonathan Woodard, Jonathan Ledbetter
                  Deatrich Wise -> Christian Wilkins?
                  John Simon -> Charles Harris

                  Off-Ball LBs
                  Dont'a Hightower -> Raekwon McMillan
                  Kyle Van Noy -> AVG???
                  Elandon Roberts -> Kiko Alonso, Jerome Baker?

                  On-Ball, Edge LBs
                  Dont'a Hightower -> ???
                  Kyle Van Noy -> Jerome Baker? Andrew Van Ginkel
                  John Simon -> Jayrone Elliott, Charles Harris?

                  Blitz Package LBs/Ss
                  Dont'a Hightower -> Raekwon McMillan (A, B gap blitzes only)
                  Kyle Van Noy -> Jerome Baker? Andrew Van Ginkel
                  John Simon -> Jayrone Elliott, Charles Harris?
                  Patrick Chung -> Reshad Jones, Minkah Fitzpatrick? Jerome Baker?
                  Devin McCourty -> Minkah Fitzpatrick, T.J. McDonald?

                  The ??? are the concerns as we just lack the personnel currently and will probably look to fill those this summer with guys who are still unsigned or will be cut after camps are over.

                  Comment


                  • Kato
                    Kato commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Cuch, you get extra credit for that post....very insightful on a few levels my friend. As i said, i dont know much and dont have the depth of knowledge. I still play that magnetic vibrating game where those little players scattered everywhere.... loved it though cause every once in awhile my guy went where i wanted him to, untouched!

                  • cuchulainn
                    cuchulainn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Lol... you're welcome... happy to help. Man, what I've have given to have gotten to draft Ben Banogu or Winovich. They'd have fit in so well with this defense...

                    Like I posted during the draft. Was insult to injury watching the Pats take Winovich and Stidham, which are two guys I had on my list for us.

                    Good luck with in the electric bugaloo league. ;-)

                • #11
                  I was thrilled with our #1 Pick, went downhill from there. No problem with Wilkins at all.
                  only a fool seeks peace by inciting violence

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Dolfan1 View Post
                    I was thrilled with our #1 Pick, went downhill from there. No problem with Wilkins at all.
                    Yeah... was really excited about the WIlkins drafting, but so far AVG is my favorite acquisition. Hoping he can put on some positive mass and help us forget not getting Banogu or Winovich. Lots of positives for him if he can bulk up.

                    The last 2 years AVG has had 12 sacks, 18 QB hits and 31 hurries in only 344 pass rush attempts. That's pretty good production.

                    Comp:

                    Sacks

                    Van Ginkel -- Every 28.7 rushes
                    Bosa -- Every 29.7 rushes
                    JAllen -- Every 21.7 rushes
                    Sweat -- Every 20.3 rushes
                    Burns -- Every 50.4 rushes
                    Ferrell -- Every 31.6 rushes

                    QB Hits
                    Van Ginkel -- Every 19.1 rushes

                    Bosa -- Every 24.1 rushes
                    JAllen -- Every 21.7 rushes
                    Sweat -- Every 25.6 rushes
                    Burns -- Every 44 rushes
                    Ferrell -- Every 30.2 rushes

                    Hurries
                    Van Ginkel -- Every 11.1 rushes

                    Bosa -- Every 7.6 rushes
                    JAllen -- Every 10.4 rushes
                    Sweat -- Every 9.9 rushes
                    Burns -- Every 10.5 rushes
                    Ferrell -- Every 11.4 rushes

                    He looks like he was in coverage on 197 snaps the past 2 years. He also had 2 INTs, 5 PDs and a Pick 6 TD.

                    Not sure about how all they used him, but he got his hand on a fair number of passes for a LB with less than 200 coverage snaps.

                    His overall 2017 PFF grade was over 90, which they consider excellent. In 2018, it was 75, which is average.

                    Obviously being light in the pants, his run defense metrics aren't great and that seems to be his weakness, but that was as an edge defender, where he is obviously undersized.

                    As I posted up above, I expect him to be more of an off-the-ball LB in non-passing situations where you wouldn't want him on the line for guys to get their hands on him to where he can use his speed and athleticism to attack ball carriers.
                    Last edited by cuchulainn; 04-30-2019, 11:05 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Kato
                      Kato commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I just hope he doesnt travel up to the Catskill montains with his dog Wolf to escape his wife's nagging, meet a dude and help him bring a keg up a hill, wind up getting whacked drinking from that keg with a bunch of ornately dressed, completely silent bearded dudes he meets in a hollow playing a thunderous game of bowling , and then pass out under a tree to wake up 20 years later....he will be too old to help the Phins and that may be just when they are turning our football team around

                    • cuchulainn
                      cuchulainn commented
                      Editing a comment
                      You're a weird guy, Ace. A weird guy. ;-)

                  • #13
                    Seems like everyone is good with the Wilkins pick. Same is true of the locals, as well as Kimbo, Congemi, and Rose. Like Aqua and Nole, they did think an edge was preferred, because they are tuffer to find and cost a lot more in FA. That said, everyone is on board with this pick.

                    Same is "kinda" true with Rosen. The Phins analysts, as well as the locals, mostly believe that it is a move you had to make. Some have their doubts but, no one really hates the deal and everyone can see this working out REALLY well.

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Originally posted by cuchulainn View Post

                      Agreed... and if you look, you have a solid, high class, high production guy at each level of the defense now in Wilkins, Raekwon, and Minkah.

                      We're not going to be playing a fixed 3-4, nor a 4-3, but a combination of fronts and alignments and I'm pretty sure a ton of dime. Defense will probably look a lot like what we've seen in NE...
                      Base: 3-3-5:Wilkins-Godchaux-Taylor Kiko-Raekwon-Baker X-McCain-Fitz-TJ-Jones
                      Nickel 3-3-5:Harris-Wilkins-Taylor AVG-Raekwon-Baker X-Rowe-McCain-Fitz-Jones
                      Nickel 2-4-5:Wilkins-Taylor AVG-Raekwon-Baker-Harris X-Rowe-McCain-Fitz-Jones

                      Roles will probably vary by formation/grouping and down & distance.

                      Translating what Flores worked with in NE and mapping that to our guys:

                      NE -> Fins

                      Interior DL

                      Malcom Brown -> Davon Godchaux
                      Lawrence Guy -> Christian Wilkins (different style, same alignments)
                      Danny Shelton -> ???
                      Adam Butler -> Vincent Taylor, Akeem Spence

                      DE
                      Trey Flowers -> ???
                      Adrian Clayborn -> Tank Carradine
                      Keionta Davis -> Jonathan Woodard, Jonathan Ledbetter
                      Deatrich Wise -> Christian Wilkins?
                      John Simon -> Charles Harris

                      Off-Ball LBs
                      Dont'a Hightower -> Raekwon McMillan
                      Kyle Van Noy -> AVG???
                      Elandon Roberts -> Kiko Alonso, Jerome Baker?

                      On-Ball, Edge LBs
                      Dont'a Hightower -> ???
                      Kyle Van Noy -> Jerome Baker? Andrew Van Ginkel
                      John Simon -> Jayrone Elliott, Charles Harris?

                      Blitz Package LBs/Ss
                      Dont'a Hightower -> Raekwon McMillan (A, B gap blitzes only)
                      Kyle Van Noy -> Jerome Baker? Andrew Van Ginkel
                      John Simon -> Jayrone Elliott, Charles Harris?
                      Patrick Chung -> Reshad Jones, Minkah Fitzpatrick? Jerome Baker?
                      Devin McCourty -> Minkah Fitzpatrick, T.J. McDonald?

                      The ??? are the concerns as we just lack the personnel currently and will probably look to fill those this summer with guys who are still unsigned or will be cut after camps are over.
                      Well Done Dan.

                      Norton would be a big reach to answer the Shelton question but, he is still out there in FA. Shelton is projected to be worth $5-6M a year, a 2 down run stuffing machine. He has had some trouble with missed tackles, agent may hve overpriced him, and I want him.

                      I like AVG to be avg or above next year.

                      I see Baker aas a good fit at 3-4 OLB but, our LB coach does not, and thinks the same of Kiko.

                      Comment


                      • cuchulainn
                        cuchulainn commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Sheldon could very well be a good pick up. Be interesting to see if we sign him or anyone else come May 8 when the street FA starts.

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