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  • Which QB would better fit in Miami

    RT

    Collin Kaepernick

    Russell Wilson

    Andrew Luck

  • #2
    Kaepernick might be the best "fit" but I wouldn't want him. Even though Luck had a rough couple games so far this season I think he is one of the best QB's in the league. I really like Wilson too. He is a born leader. He may not have an arm like Rodgers or Luck but he does know how to lead his team to victory.

    Comment


    • #3
      Luck, and from what I witnessed, he has just as bad of an O-line as what Tannehill has.

      Comment


      • #4
        Luck all the way. In fact any system its luck!
        The deeper the roots, the higher the reach.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Phins169 View Post
          Luck, and from what I witnessed, he has just as bad of an O-line as what Tannehill has.
          Stats for the two games this year
          Andrew Luck L @Buff and L Vs NYJ): 47/86/493/3/5 58.9 QB rating
          Colin Kaepernick W Vs Min L @ Pit 50/72/500/2/0 QBR 98.1
          Russell Wilson L @St Louls L @ Green Bay 51/71/457/3/2 QBR 91.1
          Ryan Tannehill W @ Wash and L @ Jax 52/78/585/3/0 QBR 101.7

          Comment


          • Wulf
            Wulf commented
            Editing a comment
            I daresay that I would take coaches Pagano, Tomsula, or Carroll over Philbum at this point, but then, I would take a pack of cigarettes over Clueless Joe. (And NO, I don't smoke!)

        • #6
          Mariota....

          Comment


          • London Fish & Chips
            London Fish & Chips commented
            Editing a comment
            Might give him a year at least, then we'll see how he is, but looked good on his debut

          • HndRkyaBong34
            HndRkyaBong34 commented
            Editing a comment
            Passer rating of 158 in his first NFL game and then over 200yds 2 TD's in his second game and making the cover of SI, I'll take my chances... The kid will be "Elite"

        • #7
          Luck's OL may be bad, but no where near as bad as our OL. I will say this about RT, if he had the stats Luck had right now most here would be calling for his head.

          Luck seems to only perform when his OL is good, yet RT has to perform without the convenience of a good OL and has performed well with a terrible OL year after year.....As seen, Luck is much worse than RT when the OL is bad, he made throws last night that reminded me of Culpepper.....

          What about Wilson, 0-2, he needs an outstanding team as well to win, now that the wheels are falling off, he can't seem to get a win.....I would have never paid RW that type of money, noway....

          Colin, good one week bad another, been that way for a couple years.....

          I just look as these QB's and know if they were in our system they would be plain awful, Luck has already proven that, he is worse than RT under the same conditions or even a bit favorable....

          Given time any of these QB's would be good and have been, but you take that time away and they are just an average Joe....

          Comment


          • Phins169
            Phins169 commented
            Editing a comment
            I hate to disagree with you Seadog but I have a feeling Indy will have a better shot at the playoffs and Luck will have a better year than Tannehill, even though his line is just as bad. JMHO

          • London Fish & Chips
            London Fish & Chips commented
            Editing a comment
            LOL, you're not disagreeing with me at all, Indy does have a better chance, but I bet at the end of the season RT is doing better than Luck....

            Our D is having huge troubles, the next 2 weeks will give us a better picture of what we will look at the rest of the year....Coyle included....

          • NYPhinfan13
            NYPhinfan13 commented
            Editing a comment
            Seadog, are you bringing up the Culpepper thing again. I remember the herald days. Joey H was and stil the better option back then.

        • #8
          I say Wilson because he is the most skilled of the three at avoiding the rush behind a poor OL. Luck is EASILY the best QB of the three...but he's 0-2 behind a better line than ours....so he would struggle badly here.

          Until we fix the line, NO QB will be able to play consistently and deliver big wins.

          Comment


          • #9
            One more critical question. Teams have won superbowls with mediocre game managers at QB ( and I think Tannehill is a good bit better than that).....how many teams have won a Superbowl with an awful O Line or very ineffective defense?

            Comment


            • cuchulainn
              cuchulainn commented
              Editing a comment
              C'mon Alpha, Tannehill has 2 hands. One to block with and one to throw with... and they're both free when he's playing defense. ;-)

          • #10
            Career rating wise, Luck is at an outstanding 85.4 while Tannehill is at a paltry 84.8. It's less than a single point difference, but people make out like it's chasm spanning continents.

            Since 2013, Luck is 12-0 against the weak AFC South, but only 10-12 against all other competition and he has never lead the colts to a win over the Pats. Conversely, he also has a losing record against the Fins.

            Starting last season, Tannehill has no games of 3 or more turnovers while Luck has had 3 games where he turned the ball over 3 or more times. For his career, Luck has 23 career games with multiple turnovers which constitutes almost half his games. In Tannehill's career, he has 13 games with multiple turnovers, but 5 of those were in his rookie year, which was a year he wasn't supposed to even start or play.

            Luck, Wilson, Brees, and Flacco have their teams off to an 0-2 start this season. You can make the argument that they aren't the reason for their team's 0-2 start, but you have to acknowledge by doing so that Tannehill isn't the reason we lost against the Jags either and also that he played with the ankle injury affecting him late in the game. Before losing Albert, Fox shatting the bed on the strip-sack, and the kicker missing a FG.

            Luck and Wilson both get a pass on a lot of things that a very vocal subset of Dolphins fans cry out for Tannehill's head over. They both are more polished, but a lot of that has to do with the experience they had entering the draft and the maturity and quality of the coaching staffs they went to.

            IMO, people nitpick Tannehill to death and look too quickly to blame him for and all losses.

            I mostly stay out of the Tannehill debates as they're largely pointless, but this is the 2nd or 3rd topic on him already. He's not going anywhere for at least the next 2 seasons even if we draft someone in 2017 or 2018.

            YMMV.

            Comment


            • HndRkyaBong34
              HndRkyaBong34 commented
              Editing a comment
              Maybe, just maybe RT could throw himself the ball once in a while to help score or get a first down? He was a WR's...yeah! then on Defense he can play opposite of Grimes because he understands the position... RT needs to improve and start winning football games... Come on!....

            • cuchulainn
              cuchulainn commented
              Editing a comment
              Lol... yeah. He's not without fault, but for those looking for scapegoats among the players, he's just an easy target. If our Defense was what it was supposed to be and he had a 'beast' at RB, he'd look a lot better.
              Last edited by cuchulainn; 09-22-2015, 06:34 PM.

            • ONole1
              ONole1 commented
              Editing a comment
              I don't call for Tannehill's head, but I just think he is what he is. I think he's Miami's best option for now and the foreseeable future, but for Miami to win with him they need to be GREAT somewhere else.

              Tannehill and Luck may have similar stats in certain areas, but that's why I never truly base my opinions on stats. A couple of stats you left out though. Luck in the same time frame has thrown 23 more TD's than Tannehill. His WPC is a full yard more than RT as well and he has only thrown 6 more INT's than RT. Luck takes more chances and throws the ball downfield more. I could also argue that Luck has had much less talent around him than Tannehill.

              The QBR that takes situations into play and not just stats are not even close (sans the first two games of this year). The eyeball test tells me Luck is on the verge of being and elite QB and Tannehill is not.

          • #11
            Originally posted by Alpha View Post
            One more critical question. Teams have won superbowls with mediocre game managers at QB ( and I think Tannehill is a good bit better than that).....how many teams have won a Superbowl with an awful O Line or very ineffective defense?
            1) Jim Plunkett 2) Jim McMahon 3) Joe Theismann 4) Phil Simms 5) Jeff Hostetler 6) Mark Rypein 7) Trent Dilfer 8) Brad Johnson 9) Joe Flacco (Should an ex-Dolphin be on this list?)

            You're correct! Over on Phinatics I made a long thread for the draft where I made this my case for building a STRONG defense, because mediocre QB's can win Super Bowls, but they MUST have an offensive line. As I have stated more times then I can count, they can sign and draft 10 more wide receivers but it won't matter if he doesn't have time to throw the football.

            Comment


            • #12
              ONOLe1 commented

              I don't call for Tannehill's head, but I just think he is what he is. I think he's Miami's best option for now and the foreseeable future, but for Miami to win with him they need to be GREAT somewhere else.

              Tannehill and Luck may have similar stats in certain areas, but that's why I never truly base my opinions on stats. A couple of stats you left out though. Luck in the same time frame has thrown 23 more TD's than Tannehill. His WPC is a full yard more than RT as well and he has only thrown 6 more INT's than RT. Luck takes more chances and throws the ball downfield more. I could also argue that Luck has had much less talent around him than Tannehill.

              The QBR that takes situations into play and not just stats are not even close (sans the first two games of this year). The eyeball test tells me Luck is on the verge of being and elite QB and Tannehill is not.

              A lot of that goes back to their rookie seasons though - and again Tannehill wasn't supposed to even play that year. Tannehill struggled in 2012 and 2013, and didn't become a 'good' QB until last season IMO. Tannehill has had flashes here and there where he's shown he can be a Top 5-8 QB and that he can continue to ascend, but until he gets a more consistent OL and balanced offense, we're going to continue to struggle. It is what it is.

              While I think Luck has been the better overall QB, I don't think the gap is as large as most of Tannehill's detractors make out and that was my point. Luck is not continuing to ascend. He leads the league in turnovers the past 2 seasons and already has 6 turnovers (5 INTs and a lost fumble). His decision making is questionable and so far he's been outplayed by Tyrod Taylor and Ryan Fitzbeard. Luck also is 0-3 against the AFCE in his last 3 games and has never beaten the Pats. He's aggressive and pushes the ball down the field, which you want, but he's also costing his team wins with the poor decisions ala an aging and washed up Favre... That's not elite IMO.

              Comment


              • #13
                Personally, Tanny has been the best QB we've had since Marino in regards to talent. Tanny has the legs to move out of the pocket, a rifle for a arm and ispretty accurate aside from the long ball which not every QB has success throwing with it being a low percentage catch play. But Tanny has all the tangibles to be a fine QB in this league. We can't put all the blame on Tanny. We've had no solid OL, we've not had a solid running back aside from Miller behind Tanny and we've had a defense that collapsed the last part of the year last year. If we could only get solid on the line, it won't be till then that we won't know exactly what we have in Tanny cause you have to give him time to find the open receiver. Kind of hard to do when your on your back or only have two seconds to pick a target before the pocket collapses. I think we need to focus more on the lack of talent on the OL then the supposedly lack of talent some think we have at the QB position.

                Comment


                • #14
                  Originally posted by Phin4Ever View Post
                  Personally, Tanny has been the best QB we've had since Marino in regards to talent. Tanny has the legs to move out of the pocket, a rifle for a arm and ispretty accurate aside from the long ball which not every QB has success throwing with it being a low percentage catch play. But Tanny has all the tangibles to be a fine QB in this league. We can't put all the blame on Tanny. We've had no solid OL, we've not had a solid running back aside from Miller behind Tanny and we've had a defense that collapsed the last part of the year last year. If we could only get solid on the line, it won't be till then that we won't know exactly what we have in Tanny cause you have to give him time to find the open receiver. Kind of hard to do when your on your back or only have two seconds to pick a target before the pocket collapses. I think we need to focus more on the lack of talent on the OL then the supposedly lack of talent some think we have at the QB position.

                  Agree. The defense and injuries cost us 3 games last season. You're always going to lose at least 1 that you should've won, but still that was the difference in being a 10 win team and making the playoffs and ending up at .500 again.

                  Tannehill likely will never be elite or a Top 3 QB. He's still better than what 22 to 24 other teams have at QB right now and he's a tough a little SOB. Hopefully his pocket presence and vision will improve before he gets seriously injured by the OL.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    Originally posted by cuchulainn View Post

                    Agree. The defense and injuries cost us 3 games last season. You're always going to lose at least 1 that you should've won, but still that was the difference in being a 10 win team and making the playoffs and ending up at .500 again.

                    Tannehill likely will never be elite or a Top 3 QB. He's still better than what 22 to 24 other teams have at QB right now and he's a tough a little SOB. Hopefully his pocket presence and vision will improve before he gets seriously injured by the OL.
                    Don't forget to include coaching in that list! Our sideline has cost us several games in recent years...

                    Comment

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