Still waiting!

[Phintim Menace]

I have really enjoyed watching the first 3 games of the preseason. That defensive line against Atlanta was sweet. But all of the plays I have seen made this preseason were by veteran players. Tannehill, Landry, Miller, Suh, Wake, Grimes, etc. I already knew these guys could play.

What I really wanted to see this preseason was Parker, Stills, Cameron and Ajayi. I am still waiting. These are very talented athletes who can elevate the level of play for any team. The Dolphins look like wild card contenders without any of these guys, so what will they bring to the table when fully implemented and in synch with the offense? I am a very big believer in the matchup aspect. For example, if Parker becomes #1 WR and Sills becomes #2, what will Landry and Jennings do? If a defense has trouble covering that talented group of receivers, who covers Sims and Cameron? If the opponent plays 6 Defensive backs to try to cover these weapons, what will Miler and Ajayi do? If somehow you found a way to cover all these guys down field, Tannehill moves pretty well with the ball in his hands, especially if the defense is running away from him in coverage. If these new players are anything close to what they were projected to be, this offense will be as big of a matchup nightmare as our defense is shaping up to be, maybe even more! If the offense does come together, I feel like that elevates this team to a Superbowl Contender by the end of the season. Fortunately for us, that's when the Superbowl is played!

[DolphinsFreak]

Positive Outlook

Parker and Still will become the Dolphins top receivers. The Dolphins will be in a unique situation and have too many talented players at one position and actually have depth and/or trade leverage.
Cameron will stay healthy all season long and put up numbers like he did in 2013 when he almost played a full season.
Ajayi will be an excellen change of pace running back and give Miller rest without missing a beat and now allowing defenses to rest.

Negative Outlook

Parker and Stills are both coming off injuries. They missed most, if not all of training camp. Tannehill has serious problems developing chemistry with his wide receivers, especially the faster ones. Both Parker and Stills could turn out to be just like Wallace, receivers who run their routes as the play is designed BUT Tannehill lacks the confidence to throw to them so they end up being nothing more than decoys, just like Wallace. Yes, he caught 10 TD's but that wasn't enough for the fans or the front office. He could have had more had the balls been on target, in most cases, and in some cases he could have fought for the ball.
Cameron has not been getting too many looks from Tannehill and he could end up being a wasted commodity if Tannehill doesn't start looking his way and getting the most talented TE the ball. Cameron is an excellent tight end and a much needed player to help move those chains and also to help score in the Redzone.
Ajayi could end up being an injury prone running back who get passed up by Williams and James.

I don't know which outlook will happen, maybe it will be a mixture of both or maybe, just maybe the Dolphins luck has finally changed and the Positive Outlook will happen for the Dolphins this season and they will be headed into the first playoff game since the flukey Wildcat season.

[Phintim Menace]

That's sure the two sides of the coin. Reality is probably in between somewhere. The only thing I don't get is this is the first time I have ever heard anyone anywhere say that Wallace runs routes as designed. He is a very poor route runner. Ever wonder why the passes are on target to Landry???? Because he is where he is supposed to be when he is supposed to be there. Wallace never is.

[DolphinsFreak]

"The only thing I don't get is this is the first time I have ever heard anyone anywhere say that Wallace runs routes as designed. He is a very poor route runner. Ever wonder why the passes are on target to Landry????"

No. I have never wondered that. What I have wondered is how Tannehill threw exactly the same terrible passes to Harline in 2012 when he was the Dolphins "#1 Receiver. NOBODY claimed that Hartline was a bad route runner OR that Hartline wasn't spending enough time with Tannehill in the offseason or after practice. When it was obvious in 2012 that Tannehill had issues connecting with Hartline on passes over 20 yards nobody questioned Hartline, because it was clear that it was Tannehill's fault. THEN, the very next season he throws the EXACT same terrible passes on just about every pass over 20 yards and everybody wants to blame Wallace and not Tannehill. Why? It's because of two reasons; these people were unhappy with Wallace's contract, and/or these people are trying to support the Dolphins quarterback.

Wallace did NOT fight for the ball. He did NOT come back and act like that football was his. However, the ball should NOT be underthrown on just about every pass. He shouldn't have to comeback for the ball on every pass over 20 yards. Does Wallace run great routes? Nope. Did Tannehill have problems hitting his receivers on passes thrown over 20 yards in 2012, 2013 and 2014? YES! People can put all the blame on Wallace, that is their right, but as far as I am concerned Tannehill must take MOST of the blame for the reason why most of the passes to Wallace were not completed. The proof is on tape, and that tape must be looked at during the Hartline year too.

[Dolfan1]

but as far as I am concerned Tannehill must take MOST of the blame for the reason why most of the passes to Wallace were not completed. The proof is on tape, and that tape must be looked at during the Hartline year too.

We'll have to agree to disagree there and I'm not going to go into the 7,000 reasons I've already stated over the last two years. Wallace is a one trick pony and it's not even a great trick. End of story. Now why am I typing in blue just cus I copied and pasted what you said?

[DolphinsFreak]

That was funny that you got stuck typing in blue.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This is a new forum to many of us and since this "debate" started with someone who may not have read my previous posts on the subject I figured I would post them. Whether Wallace is a one trick pony or not doesn't change my opinion on this subject. I happen to agree with you on that subject. Wallace is a one trick pony in my opinion. I have read his Twitter account enough to know that I don't care for the guy. I do not like how he doesn't fight for the ball, especially for the amount of money he gets paid. But, I don't care about the money part, ALL football players get paid well and should fight for the ball if they are a receiver. He was a one trick pony that was able to get WIDE OPEN on MANY plays that Tannehill couldn't connect with him on and they were NOT Wallace's fault on 98% of those passes. Those passes were underthrown, overthrown, etc. and they were the same exact types of throws that Tannehill missed to Hartline in the previous year. He underthrew Hartline, he overthrew Hartline, he threw the ball WAY out of bounds, etc. So, I don't think it was Hartline's fault in 2012 and I don't think it was Wallace's fault when he came to town. Tannehill has been terrible at throwing the ball past a certain amount of yards. Most people see this as a big concern and don't blame the entire wide receiving corps for Tannehill's mistakes. There are a couple ways to end this debate; watch the 2012 tapes AND the following years. But, most people are not going to do that so let's see if Tannehill has improved on his deep passes this season, let's see if he has the same problems with Parker, Stills, Cameron, etc AND while we are at it, let's keep an eye on how poorly or how well Wallace plays with a 2nd year quarterback up in Minnesota.

[Dolfan1]

Well 98 % I don't agree with, I'd put it more at 50/50. Hey look, I'm back to black type. Anyhow over thrown was a rarity most were under thrown and Wallace was known for not going full speed in practice, that's a fact and he even admitted it so if RT got used to him being at a certain spot on the field in practice and then Wallace suddenly turns on the jets in a real game, guess what's going to happen. I'm saying it right now, you are going to see a world of difference in RT and his completion percentage this year and it's not all going to be some sudden transformation in RT as much as I'd like that to be the case. A lot of it is going to be the willingness of ALL his receivers going to get the ball for him and helping their QB out. Something that is NOT in Wallaces's repertoire.

[cuchulainn]

I have really enjoyed watching the first 3 games of the preseason. That defensive line against Atlanta was sweet. But all of the plays I have seen made this preseason were by veteran players. Tannehill, Landry, Miller, Suh, Wake, Grimes, etc. I already knew these guys could play.

What I really wanted to see this preseason was Parker, Stills, Cameron and Ajayi. I am still waiting. These are very talented athletes who can elevate the level of play for any team. The Dolphins look like wild card contenders without any of these guys, so what will they bring to the table when fully implemented and in synch with the offense? I am a very big believer in the matchup aspect. For example, if Parker becomes #1 WR and Sills becomes #2, what will Landry and Jennings do? If a defense has trouble covering that talented group of receivers, who covers Sims and Cameron? If the opponent plays 6 Defensive backs to try to cover these weapons, what will Miler and Ajayi do? If somehow you found a way to cover all these guys down field, Tannehill moves pretty well with the ball in his hands, especially if the defense is running away from him in coverage. If these new players are anything close to what they were projected to be, this offense will be as big of a matchup nightmare as our defense is shaping up to be, maybe even more! If the offense does come together, I feel like that elevates this team to a Superbowl Contender by the end of the season. Fortunately for us, that's when the Superbowl is played!

I think we got some answers there... and some new questions elsewhere. We're loaded at WR and Tannehill is showing great chemistry with his existing WRs. I hope we get Parker more involved, but do not want to risk reinjury to that surgically repaired foot. Ease him back in and look to feature him next season once Jennings is likely gone.

Stills has had a calf injury, but is a much more complete WR for a speed guy than he gets credit for. The knock on Stills is getting off the LOS, which is why the Saints had him in motion a lot. He's a very good route runner and has sure hands though. He also knows how to avoid big hits.

Cameron remains a question, but I think he'll have a greater impact than Clay did and he and Parker give us big targets in the RZ, which we've lacked the past few seasons.

As we discussed this morning, Ajayi has a cracked rib. IMO, we should either IR him for 6 weeks or simply bench him and save him for the stretch.

YMMV...

[Phintim Menace]

I agree completely. We saw some great things from some of these young players. Enough to make me feel better about our depth and future. Our coaches have some very tough cuts to make, and that is a wonderful problem to have.

[DolphinsFreak]

Well 98 % I don't agree with, I'd put it more at 50/50. Hey look, I'm back to black type. Anyhow over thrown was a rarity most were under thrown and Wallace was known for not going full speed in practice, that's a fact and he even admitted it so if RT got used to him being at a certain spot on the field in practice and then Wallace suddenly turns on the jets in a real game, guess what's going to happen. I'm saying it right now, you are going to see a world of difference in RT and his completion percentage this year and it's not all going to be some sudden transformation in RT as much as I'd like that to be the case. A lot of it is going to be the willingness of ALL his receivers going to get the ball for him and helping their QB out. Something that is NOT in Wallaces's repertoire.

I think it's hilarious that whenever this debate comes up nobody wants to talk about Tannehill's issues with NOT being able to hit Hartline on the exact same passes. It's like Dolphins fans either don't remember or don't want to talk about it. This is not directed at you, D1, this goes out to everyone that thinks Wallace is the problem, which is a lot as you know. You and I can agree, TO DISAGREE. We have already had this discussion more than once over on Phinatics.

As far as Tannehill's completion percentage, I honestly could care less about that. Really. I don't give care about his numbers at all. I think they are skewed. If he has high percentages for passes OVER 20 yards, then I will start caring about those numbers. Anyone can complete a 3-yard pass and do so often. Tannehill has made some serious changes in the way he throws the ball and I have noticed it , and I think his accuracy has improved dramatically. He is hitting his receivers in stride and on a consistent basis for the first time in his career. I expect him to have a great season IF the offensive line stays healthy and protects him. If this o-line fails to do that, I think the coaching staff and front office should all be fired.

[Dolfan1]

Hartline was fine two years ago bud, it was only last year that he struggled and the change over to Lazor's system had everything to do with it IMHO. You have said more than once that he had the same problem with Hartline which is misleading as the majority of his deep passes that weren't completed were to Wallace. Anyway, like you said, you and I have hashed this to death already, lets get some fresh ideas on it.

[DolphinsFreak]

Hartline was fine two years ago bud, it was only last year that he struggled and the change over to Lazor's system had everything to do with it IMHO. You have said more than once that he had the same problem with Hartline which is misleading as the majority of his deep passes that weren't completed were to Wallace. Anyway, like you said, you and I have hashed this to death already, lets get some fresh ideas on it.

You're correct, Hartline was fine two years ago. He was the Dolphins #1 receiver and while running his routes Tannehill would underthrow him, overthrow him and just sail footballs out of bounds. Was Hartline running half speed at practice too? Why did Tannehill have problems hitting Hartline BEFORE Wallace came to Miami?

Sorry, bro, but you may have talked about this subject a lot but you chose to get back involved in it. BWAHAHA........Just playin' with ya.........

[Dolfan1]

Check out the videos in the garage. It's much nicer than discussing WR's who aren't even with the team any longer.

[DolphinsFreak]

Cool. I will head on over to that thread.

[Phintim Menace]

Just for my 2 cents. I do think that Tannehill has responsibility on the deep passing issues in his career. I do think that has been his greatest weakness as a QB. What I do think is that some receivers like Landry, help a QB out. The ball belongs to them when it's in the air. They run the same routes at the same depths and locations and speeds every single time. The QB gets comfortable with them and trusts them. You have to know RT got a lump in his throat every time he looked deep to Wallace. For a QB to have trust in a receiver isn't special to RT. It is true for every QB I've ever seen play. Marino always preferred Clayton, not by reading the defense or the route, he just had confidence that Clayton would make the play for him.

[DolphinsFreak]

I totally agree with you on that point. All quarterbacks have their go-to receivers that they favor over the others. Tannehill had a great deal of confidence throwing the ball to Hartline, but only on certain routes. Once Hartline went from Tannehill's #1 receiver to his #2 receiver you could see that Tannehill really liked throwing to Hartline, in 2013. However, in 2012 Tannehill had that "ump in his throat" when throwing to Hartline on certain routes. In 2012 Tannehill his Hartline, his #1 receiver, 74 times, but missed him on almost every route that was over 20 yards. That is part of the reason why the Dolphins #1 WR in 2012 only had ONE TOUCHDOWN. Once Wallace came to town Hartline started running shorter routes again and Tannehill regained his confidence in him, because of the SHORT routes, not because of the receiver. Hartline as a #2 receiver caught almost as many balls as he did when he was a #1, and had more touchdowns. Why? It's because Tannehill is NOT comfortable throwing the ball deep to ANYONE, not just Wallace, not just Hartline, but to ANYONE. So, my point is, that although Wallace was a WEAK wide receiver who refused to fight for the ball, I do not think he is to blame for Tannehill's inaccurate passes because they were happening PRIOR to Wallace coming to Miami. JMO

[Phintim Menace]

I understand your point, just you keep using Hartilne as your measuring stick. I am pretty confident that Hartline will never reach the Hall of fame either. In fact, I am not sure he'll survive this season. So I am not as convinced as you are yet. But I would say these 2 points, this year will be the best collection of receivers Ryan has had and we will see what that means for the passing game. Secondly, there are many HOF QBs that were not good deep ball passers, as Griese reported last night, he and Montana are two of them. So if this winds up being Ryan's weakness does that mean he cannot lead this team to a Superbowl?