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Oliver Vernon vs Cam Wake- A closer look

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  • Oliver Vernon vs Cam Wake- A closer look

    Some Phans think that OV has had a half of a VG season in playing for a new contract and is not worth keeping. I disagree and took a look at what he has done since we drafted him in the 3rd round, while comparing his production vs Wake. He had a decent rookie season in 2012 but, am just going on the last 3 years.

    In 2013, OV had 11.5 sacks and 57 tackles. Wake had 8.5 sacks and 37 tackles.

    In 2014, OV had 6.5 sacks and 46 tackles. Wake had 11.5 sacks and 36 tackles.

    In 2015, OV had 7.5 sacks and 61 tackles. Wake had 7 sacks and 9 tackles in 7 games.

    OV has never missed a game, is much better vs the run, makes many more tackles, and does compare well at this point in the careers of both on QB pressure while playing vs LT's.

    Some say that OV got his sacks from Wake forcing the QB to him and getting hustle sacks by never giving up on a play. Then say that he did not give his best effort until the second half of last year in playing for a contract while playing injured in the first half. He had a great second half without Wake but, some point to Suh as the one responsible.

    Seems to me that some are taking shots at the guy just developing, getting better, and just playing very well.in looking for excuses as to why without giving him the credit he deserves.

    JMO

  • #2
    My biggest problem with OV is whenever we have the other team in 3rd and Long, he draws a 15 yard PF which makes me crazy. He's extended the other teams drives way too many times.
    While it takes two to have an argument, it only takes one to walk away.

    Comment


    • #3
      He is good but we are at cap max and something's gotta give. I agree with you on earlier post of who to cut such as Grimes but Cameron is important for Tanehills growth, confidence and outlet.
      The deeper the roots, the higher the reach.

      Comment


      • #4
        I was always on the fence with OV. I still think he needs to clean up the STUPID penalties and set the edge better, but once he got healthy last year I would argue he was one of if not the most disruptive DE in the game last year. He is a tough SOB, and while he has played hurt, like Joe said he has never missed a game. He is young and IMO one of the top DE's in the game, you don't let them walk away. Get him singed or tag him and move on...

        Comment


        • #5
          I would try and resign OV, hopefully to a reasonable contract, something like 5 years for $45 million. Then I would see if we can restructure Wake's contract. He is due to make $9.5 million next year I believe. I would see if he would accept a one year extension and lower his cap number.

          Shelby might then be too expensive to resign so we can draft a DE to replace him in the rotation. Maybe Carl Nassib if he drops to the 3rd round or Charles Tapper in the 4th round.

          Comment


          • #6
            Cameron Jordan signed a 5 year, $55,000,000 contract with the New Orleans Saints, including a $16,000,000 signing bonus, $33,469,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $11,000,000. In 2016, Jordan will earn a base salary of $3,500,000, a restructure bonus of $6,000,000 and a workout bonus of $100,000. Jordan has a cap hit of $8,000,000 while his dead money value is $12,800,000.
            Contract: 5 yr(s) / $55,000,000 Signing Bonus $16,000,000 Average Salary$11,000,000 Guaranteed:$33,469,000 Free Agent:2021 / UFA
            2015 25 $969,000 $3,200,000 - - - $4,169,000 $22,969,000
            2016 26 $3,500,000 $3,200,000 - $100,000 $1,200,000 $8,000,000 $12,800,000
            2017 27 $7,000,000 $3,200,000 - $100,000 $1,200,000 $11,500,000 $9,600,000
            2018 28 $8,400,000 $3,200,000 $800,000 $100,000 $1,200,000 $13,700,000 $6,400,000
            2019 29 $8,000,000 $3,200,000 $1,000,000 $100,000 $1,200,000 $13,500,000 $3,200,000
            2020 30 $8,800,000 - $1,000,000 $100,000 $1,200,000 $11,100,000 -
            2021 31 UFA


            Comment


            • #7
              I'm against it brov.

              12 to 15 per year - you are looking for a leader in the club house. I don't believe he is a leader...if he was, he wouldnt be making plays that cost the team.

              He plays for him and from what i have seen doesnt play for the team

              Remember Mark Anderson - he played for the pats and had back to back season of 12 plus sacks....the bills game him a fat contract to play opposite mario williams and he sucked...royally

              OV is the same player as Anderson

              let him walk

              Comment


              • #8
                Cam Wake makes plays in crucial situations with the game on the line. Cam Wake always draws the double team or RB chip. OV gets his occasional sack but the only time he makes plays on big downs are his personal foul, automatic first downs on 3rd and forevers. He's better against the run because he does not attack the line of scrimmage the way Wake does. He's a pretty good DE that is a FA in a really down FA DE year. He's worth $8 million a year. I'd rather sign Chris Long and Lauranitis for the same price as paying OV $11-15million/year. Regardless of the numbers Wake and OV are in two different categories. I don't want to throw OV away but it sets a bad precedent to start paying just above average players as elite players.

                Comment


                • So Be
                  So Be commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Last year, Wake had 7 sacks and 9 tackles in 7 games, 6 of those were in our blow outs vs Tenn and Houston. OV had 80 QB pressures for the year in spite of the first half injury.

              • #9
                OV's floor was set when Vinny Curry signed the 5 year, 47.25 million deal. That's $9.5M a year for Curry. OV will be looking for something around 5 years at $60M +/-...

                Don't see being able to keep OV, Matthews, and Miller... especially with the type of money OV is going to want.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Bahamas View Post
                  I'm against it brov.

                  12 to 15 per year - you are looking for a leader in the club house. I don't believe he is a leader...if he was, he wouldnt be making plays that cost the team.

                  He plays for him and from what i have seen doesnt play for the team

                  Remember Mark Anderson - he played for the pats and had back to back season of 12 plus sacks....the bills game him a fat contract to play opposite mario williams and he sucked...royally

                  OV is the same player as Anderson

                  let him walk
                  You are entitled to a bad post every now and then, and this is one of them.

                  Suh is now 29. How much was he costing his team in his younger years as to where OV is now? Not putting OV in the same class but, worth considering.

                  Not playing for the team is kinda silly. He played with a bad ankle half the year and focused on getting after the QB in the second half, as we had no one else doing it. He did this with no Wake.

                  Comment


                  • Bahamas
                    Bahamas commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I get it brov

                    Looks like you are wearing your OV jersey. He has the talent, i just dont see the passion. I'd rather have Malik Jackson for 12 million a year than OV

                • #11
                  Saw this... http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2...rt_river_index

                  Giants are very interested in OV...

                  What happens with Miami Dolphins defensive end Olivier Vernon over the next two weeks could greatly affect the Giants and a handful of other teams desperately trying to land a free-agent pass rusher. Teams are watching closely.

                  Vernon, 25, is set to become a free agent next month, but there have been talks of the Dolphins designating him their franchise player. Miami is now indicating at the NFL Scouting Combine that they may franchise, then trade, the young pass rusher, multiple league sources with knowledge of the situation told NJ Advance Media.
                  Not sure about the Franchising and trading as the Franchise Tag would put him at $15M this season, but that could open the door to a better long term deal as the bottom line is cash over the long haul.

                  Comment


                  • VAIDER5120
                    VAIDER5120 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yeah I read that. Key here is NJ.com as they know so much about the Dolphins.

                  • cuchulainn
                    cuchulainn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Armando is reporting the same thing... and they're basing it off what the FO is saying...

                • #12
                  We are in the 4th year of the CBA deal where teams HAVE TO spend 89% of salary cap space over that time span. There are teams which must spend a bunch of cash.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    I'd much rather offer whatever you think OV is worth to Mario Williams if/when he is officially released by the Bills. OV just doesn't seem to make positive plays in the clutch, rather he makes stupid penalties and is a cheap shot artist IMO. One or two dives at QB's knees can be excused, but he does it all the time. I just don't see him being worth what someone will be willing to pay him. If we can keep him without paying him top dollar I'd be all for it, but I think he'll get a payday from someone.

                    If not Williams, use $8 million to get Truman Johnson away from the Rams and use the other $4 to $5 mil on a veteran guard or Solai. If the CB spot is filled during FA, you can get a pass rusher like Lawson by trading down. With Solai back in the mix Suh can slide outside on some passing downs opposite some young pass rushers, Wake, or a draft pick. I think Bobby McCain will also work his way into the starting lineup next year. He flashed when given the opportunity last year.

                    Comment


                    • cuchulainn
                      cuchulainn commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Williams and Wake are both old... Williams will probably want to go to an early favorite for a playoff team at this point.

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