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Thoughts on how RT would have done instead of PM....
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Would the Panthers have won with RT?
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Would the Panthers have won with RT?
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Not too sure that they would have won with RT or not because Manning didn't look good at all in that game. He made a few really nice passes but nothing too exceptional. The thing that IS exceptional about Manning is the way he reads defenses, which is something RT can NOT do. So, with that said, I don't think the Broncos would have won with RT starting for them because the play calling would have been different at the line of scrimmage and the Panthers would have had the ball more often.
RT would be in the hospital if he played for the Panthers. He can't sense pressure so he would have never seen some of those hits coming.
Either team would have lost with RT starting for them.
Anyone surprised by my answers? AHA
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." - George S. Patton
“The only thing worse then a liar is a liar that’s also a hypocrite!” - Tennessee Williams-
The Broncos defense scored 7 and gave the Broncos the ball at the 4, which CJ Anderson scored. I say they would have won with RT because the defense outscored Carolina. Broncos offense had one good drive all day and scored. RT usually gets one good drive as well. Manning sucked, but fact is that defense wins and the Broncos defense completely shut down Carolina. 21 hits on the QB is unreal.
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If you think the Broncos could have won that game with Osweiler at QB - and I do, then yes, they could have. Tannehill has more arm strength and mobility than Payton - and he's used to playing behind a porous OL. Given the fact that the Broncos NEVER gave up the run game and was judicious with the pass plays, then yes, they could have won with Tannehill.
As for the Panthers - Tannehill is mentally tougher than Cam Newton and more accurate. Cam was playing under the sort of pressure Tannehill normally faces from AFCE teams. Cam went into a shell early in the game and never came out. Doubt Tannehill could have helped win the game for the Panthers, but I think they would have protected the ball more.Cam's turnovers with the INT and fumbles was directly what gave the Broncos the win.
Cam Newton when both Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware rushed him: 1-of-12 passing, 4 sacks, 2 fumbles (CAR lost 33 total yards). The 2 forced fumbles of Cam by Von Miller both resulted in TDs, which were the difference. Also, Newton wasn't very accurate at all. He tied a Super Bowl record for the most overthrown passes... If his receivers hadn't been skyhooking or making difficult catches, his numbers would have been much worse. I really surprised Funchess was able to leap so high on one of those. He also missed a wide open Ginn late in the game down the left sideline on what should have been a TD.
YMMV.
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As the guy on Laugh-in (Artie Johnson??) used to say 'Ve-r-r-r-r-r-y interesting!' question...First i'm gonna say that obvious to everyone, this game was won by a combination of Denver's dominant D, and Carolina making crucial mistakes whenever they had a chance to either take control of the game or at the very least get right back in it with momentum firmly on their side..PM played a Super Shitty game, but eeked out just enough offense to not lose the game..
IMO neither Osweiler or Tannehill win this game even with Denver's D; i firmly believe the stage would prove way too HUGE for both of them and they would ultimately make the costly mistakes that would give Carolina the impetus they needed to control the game & the outcome..I think it was PM's experience and understanding of the game & every situation that arose, that kept him constantly aware of what was required on his part, not making the crucial mistakes that would cost his team the game..He never tried to do too much and seemed to have a complete understanding that his defense would bail him out, time & time again, JMO...Comment
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Just to throw some gas on the fire! I think we witnessed what Tannehill would have done by how Newton played. Newton, that night, had some of the same tendencies that Tannehill has! (poor pocket awareness, could not read the defense, and is only a fast ball pitcher) He had some nice runs but when he needed to be good in the pocket, he was not able to elevate his team and will them to a win. JMHOComment
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Looking at how Peyton played this year and I know the injury had a lot to do with it, but, Yeah, I think RT on that team with that defense still could have gotten it done Not that RT is a great QB but neither was Peyton this past year. JMHO.While it takes two to have an argument, it only takes one to walk away.Comment
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Agree... and taking Tannehill out of it, I think most of the above average QBs could have won that game that night. It was all defense and pounding the rock for Denver. -
Agreed... Phil Simms commented that this was one of the few times all season he didn't have a comfortable pocket to work from or lanes to run.
As for Manning, he threw for 144 yards and an INT. Not buying that Tannehill couldn't have won that game. And remember from the off-season scrimmage that the Panthers asked us to tone down practice as we were affecting their offense's script... Cam Newton went into the fetal position in the biggest game of the year. No way he'd survive playing behind our OL and in the AFCE.
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Phil Simms is so dreadful as an analyst. The group of guys I watch fans with call him captain obvious....and these are giants fans.Comment
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I do believe RT would have won the game if he were the Donks QB. PM looked horrid as usual, great QB before the ball is snapped, but that's where his game ends, he is easily confused if a lineman drops back.
PM also will hit the dirt fast than a groundhog if the is even the slightest bit of pressure. He does it so quick that the D often stops before they touch him so as to not get a penalty, then PM tries to jump back up and make a play....
RT has seen more people in his face, around his waist, hitting him on the left, right middle.....where ever, but the OL of Denver gave PM time to throw, and did a pretty good job overall. Did you notice towards the end of the game when PM fumbled, Donks got it back, next play PM fumbles Panthers got it, I was telling my neighbor the best thing Kubiac could do right now is just run the ball the rest of the game.... And that's what he did, the only two throws after that was when PM threw the ball out of the EZ and there was a holding call against the D and on the 2 point conversion.
RT has much more mobility than PM and does much better than PM after the ball is snapped, but as far as before the ball is snapped I believe PM has the edge. Of course it would have helped the Fins and RT a long time ago to let RT read and react instead of we're gonna line up our best against you best and lets see what happens crap no matter what the play....Might as well just play that stupid electric football game I had 45 years ago, same difference, line them up and let them go....
PS: I can't stand Phil Sims, the guy is an arse.....Comment
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Oh, if RT was the QB on the Panthers side, he would have felt just like he does every week....sore and with a loss.....Comment
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Obviously one of those questions we'll never know the answer to (Unless we trade RT to Denver & they meet the Panthers in the SB again next year!) But i still maintain that had RT been behind center for the Bronc's he would've still been his worst own enemy; running backward & taking 12 yard losses instead of just throwing the ball away, getting killed by the blinside blitzer because he has no awareness in the pocket & lastly, making HUGE mistakes under pressure to ultimately lose the game..That being said, i sure would love an elite defense like Denver's and give RT every chance to prove me wrong...
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Agree cuch, and i'n not trying to change anyone's opinion..My opinion can be changed on this topic, or really any topic concerning Tannehill, but it'll only be by Tannehill showing me different on a consistent Sunday to Sunday basis... -
How many times did Denver's D get out of their lanes when rushing Cam, maybe 3 times at most.....Cam had no where to go....
Von Miller and Ware played like this earlier in the year, but that D as a whole was perfect, just fricking perfect and head over heels better than the Denver O and the Panthers O & D....That unit was just fired up and ready to rip Cams head off....they went into that game knowing THEY were going to win it, and protect the O from losing it..... -
yeah Dog, i know you're right there in Denver..I tried telling you to become a Broncos fan, but you just wouldn't listen!!! ;-)
Your good buddy Otis the town drunk (Elway) is saying that this Denver D is the greatest ever, and i'm not too sure he's that far off..As a football fan you can only sit back and watch that amazingly swarming, hard hitting & uber-fast dominating D with admiration!
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I could of been the QB for Denver and I would of won... So yes.... Dilfer did the same thing.....Comment
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Until Tanny wins an important game with the playoffs on the line, we will never know. As sorry as Fiedler was, he managed to win games by running for first downs which Mr. Tanny has gotten away from.Comment
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The way the Broncos played in the playoffs is the blueprint to Miami being successful with RT under center. Strong defense, solid running game and keep the game plan within RT's parameters. I honestly believe if Miami follows this blueprint you can win with RT, just not sure you can win because of him.Comment
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If the Dolphins are going to stick with Tannehill, which they are for now, they should use the Broncos team as an example of what they need to do in free agency and the draft. With all of Manning's injuries he is now playing down to a level that is similar to Tannehill's. If the Dolphins were to build a sold defense and a solid offensive line I believe they have a shot at winning. They have great receivers and good running backs, now all they need is better run blocking and these RB's should be able to play at least as good as Denver's running backs. The receivers are about equal, with the edge possibly going to the Dolphins. With the right play calling the Dolphins may need just two ingredients for success. It's easier said then done but it is possible. They need to get Tannehill into that film room with a real quarterbacks coach to help him learn how to read defenses and he should improve his game.
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The past 3 season's he has been no worst than Matt Ryan. Each have thrown 75 TDs. Matt Ryan has thrown more INTs over that duration and their YPA is very similar. Atlanta's record the past 3 seasons is 18-30. Miami's: 22-26.
Give him a good surrounding cast and let's see how he does. We still don't know what his ceiling is but if his floor is aprx 4000 yards, 24+ TDs, and a 2:1 TD/INT ratio, we can win a lot of games with him.Comment
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In My Opinion you just validated Nole's point. The Falcons suck. They have an elite WR and other pretty good receivers, their ground game was excellent, but their defense was terrible. Matt Ryan can throw the deep ball and is better at reading defenses then Tannehill. Neither QB is elite. What both QB's need is an elite defense and a better offensive line. This SHOULD BE Tannehill's last season to shine. This front office should approach this season as his make it or break it season. So, they should make the offensive line their top priority and then work on the defense after that. No Excuses!! After this season there can't be any more excuses, they are getting old, fast. -
Matt Ryan is good enough that he QB'ed a team to the NFC Championship Game a few years ago. Looking at the past 3 seasons, Tannehill has out performed him with a worst surrounding cast and has a better record.
There is a difference between excuses and reasons... ''He had a bad game'' is an excuse. So is ''he got hit by a truck''. Both are excuses... but clearly not the same thing. You can't just say ''regardless of circumstances'' he sucks. The most frustrating dynamic of the entire Tannehill debate is that the entire team has sucked well before he came here.
And again, from my perspective, the 1986 season speaks volumes where we had the #1 offense and #26 defense - and finished 8-8 due to no running game and no defense...Last edited by cuchulainn; 02-13-2016, 08:28 PM.
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And I have never thought Ryan was an elite QB. I have always grouped Ryan, Flaco, Smith, Tannehill and Dalton in the same grouping. They are all good enough to win with, but not sure you win because of any of them. If you put too much on their shoulders they don't play big enough to carry the load.Comment
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