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  • Over & Above QB Stats?

    I can post, spin, and debate QB stats and rankings with most anyone. It's not because I'm close to an expert but that there are sooooooo many ways to compare. There is NFL with the QBR, PFF with the eyeball grades, all the analysts, and many, many more things to make your head spin including pocket awareness, footwork, arm strength, touch, time to pass, receivers and drops, etc, etc, etc.

    IMO, when you get to the top level (stat wise), the biggest difference maker is leadership which instills confidence in the rest of the team in believing that no game is over. You need to do that by comebacks from being down a bunch, 4th quarter comebacks vs good teams, and basically putting the team on your shoulders to overcome and win in crunch time while scaring the hell out of D's when he comes on the field with any remote chance to win.

    To be fair, Tannehill, while showing consistent improvement and franchise potential, has yet to do that.

    This is what he needs to do this year to prove he is a legit top 10 or better QB.

  • #2
    Well said Joe.
    While it takes two to have an argument, it only takes one to walk away.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by So Be View Post
      I can post, spin, and debate QB stats and rankings with most anyone. It's not because I'm close to an expert but that there are sooooooo many ways to compare. There is NFL with the QBR, PFF with the eyeball grades, all the analysts, and many, many more things to make your head spin including pocket awareness, footwork, arm strength, touch, time to pass, receivers and drops, etc, etc, etc.

      IMO, when you get to the top level (stat wise), the biggest difference maker is leadership which instills confidence in the rest of the team in believing that no game is over. You need to do that by comebacks from being down a bunch, 4th quarter comebacks vs good teams, and basically putting the team on your shoulders to overcome and win in crunch time while scaring the hell out of D's when he comes on the field with any remote chance to win.

      To be fair, Tannehill, while showing consistent improvement and franchise potential, has yet to do that.

      This is what he needs to do this year to prove he is a legit top 10 or better QB.
      I agree.................

      Comment


      • #4
        I actually agree with you a great deal. I had to look at a list of all 111 QBs playing right now to put a number on it, but there is certainly a star value to a great leader that puts them ahead of a player that doesn't have it. Just not sure there are 10 in the NFL right now that fit your description. Manning and Brady are better right now, maybe for another whole year, maybe not. There are some border line guys like Roethlisberger and Ryan. I think there is reason to think Tannehill's arrow is pointing up. Age is another factor. I place Peyton Manning as one of the top tier players you describe, but at 39 I wouldn't trade Tannehill for Manning and a first round pick next year. So that is my barometer, who would you trade Tannehill for straight up? For me I would say my list would be
        1. Rogers
        2. Luck
        3. Wilson
        4. Flacco
        maybe
        5. Rivers
        6. Mariota?

        So does the potential for number of years left to play and likelihood to improve also factor into these intangibles? I know when they were drafted, RGIII and Kaepernick were both considered better than Tannehill by everyone, upon further review.........

        Comment


        • #5
          JMHO here PM but out of your list the only guys I would trade RT for would be Rogers or Luck. I think RT is at least as good or better than all the rest you listed. Again JMHO.
          While it takes two to have an argument, it only takes one to walk away.

          Comment


          • #6
            It certainly is debatable, but Wilson and Flacco have been proven winners and leaders as described, but I am not sure on any other than Rogers and Luck. So does that make RT #3 on your list of best QBs for our franchise?

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm a HUGE fan of RT, and not trying to diminish what he has done. I see, of young guys only, Luck and Wilson being better in having the "IT" factor. IMO, this is what separates QB's, and fully expect RT to take this critical step this year.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes it does. I think if you put RT on any of those other teams, he'd perform just as well as their current QB's with the exception of Rogers and Luck. I don't have any stats on hand to prove it but that's my gut feeling based on what I've seen. Manning would certainly rank up there if not for his age and the same with Brady, in fact as far as Brady is concerned, I think RT already is on par with him.

                I never bought into the claim that Montana was better than Dan either. Had Dan played for that 49er team, the 49ers would have still won in 84 if Montana was on the Phins team.
                While it takes two to have an argument, it only takes one to walk away.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Phintim Menace View Post
                  It certainly is debatable, but Wilson and Flacco have been proven winners and leaders as described, but I am not sure on any other than Rogers and Luck. So does that make RT #3 on your list of best QBs for our franchise?
                  IMO, he is. Again, sooo many things to consider on QBs, and the "IT" factor is influenced by having a GREAT D.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Phintim Menace View Post
                    I actually agree with you a great deal. I had to look at a list of all 111 QBs playing right now to put a number on it, but there is certainly a star value to a great leader that puts them ahead of a player that doesn't have it. Just not sure there are 10 in the NFL right now that fit your description. Manning and Brady are better right now, maybe for another whole year, maybe not. There are some border line guys like Roethlisberger and Ryan. I think there is reason to think Tannehill's arrow is pointing up. Age is another factor. I place Peyton Manning as one of the top tier players you describe, but at 39 I wouldn't trade Tannehill for Manning and a first round pick next year. So that is my barometer, who would you trade Tannehill for straight up? For me I would say my list would be
                    1. Rogers
                    2. Luck
                    3. Wilson
                    4. Flacco
                    maybe
                    5. Rivers
                    6. Mariota?

                    So does the potential for number of years left to play and likelihood to improve also factor into these intangibles? I know when they were drafted, RGIII and Kaepernick were both considered better than Tannehill by everyone, upon further review.........
                    My List :

                    1. Rodgers
                    2. Luck
                    3. Wilson
                    4. Brady
                    5. Rothlisberger (33)
                    6. Brees (36)
                    7. Romo
                    8. Rivers
                    9. Bridgewater
                    10. Carr ? Maybe?
                    11. Mariota? Maybe?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Carr and Bridgewater??? Really? That sure isn't based on winning or leadership, but I guess neither would be Mariota. Brady and Brees just too old period, Roethlisberger sort of could go ether way for me, 6 years older than RT, had some great performances and is a great competitor, but not as consistent as I would like. We have to remember to have this discussion again at the end of this year, probably a different picture then than it is now.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dolfan1 View Post
                        Yes it does. I think if you put RT on any of those other teams, he'd perform just as well as their current QB's with the exception of Rogers and Luck. I don't have any stats on hand to prove it but that's my gut feeling based on what I've seen. Manning would certainly rank up there if not for his age and the same with Brady, in fact as far as Brady is concerned, I think RT already is on par with him.

                        I never bought into the claim that Montana was better than Dan either. Had Dan played for that 49er team, the 49ers would have still won in 84 if Montana was on the Phins team.

                        Have to disagree with you D1 on Marino being on the 9er's,, Marino would have never worked well in a WC offense, Dan was the best pocket passer but would have never survived the WC scheme.. Montana was the Master on rolling out and finding his target.. Dan never had the legs in that regard... Marino needed a Defense and the 9er's had both..

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Phintim Menace View Post
                          I actually agree with you a great deal. I had to look at a list of all 111 QBs playing right now to put a number on it, but there is certainly a star value to a great leader that puts them ahead of a player that doesn't have it. Just not sure there are 10 in the NFL right now that fit your description. Manning and Brady are better right now, maybe for another whole year, maybe not. There are some border line guys like Roethlisberger and Ryan. I think there is reason to think Tannehill's arrow is pointing up. Age is another factor. I place Peyton Manning as one of the top tier players you describe, but at 39 I wouldn't trade Tannehill for Manning and a first round pick next year. So that is my barometer, who would you trade Tannehill for straight up? For me I would say my list would be
                          1. Rogers
                          2. Luck
                          3. Wilson
                          4. Flacco
                          maybe
                          5. Rivers
                          6. Mariota?

                          So does the potential for number of years left to play and likelihood to improve also factor into these intangibles? I know when they were drafted, RGIII and Kaepernick were both considered better than Tannehill by everyone, upon further review.........
                          Rogers
                          Mariota
                          Wilson
                          Luck
                          Flacco
                          Brees

                          In that order..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Phintim Menace View Post
                            Carr and Bridgewater??? Really? That sure isn't based on winning or leadership, but I guess neither would be Mariota. Brady and Brees just too old period, Roethlisberger sort of could go ether way for me, 6 years older than RT, had some great performances and is a great competitor, but not as consistent as I would like. We have to remember to have this discussion again at the end of this year, probably a different picture then than it is now.
                            I think we should definitely revisit this conversation at the end of the year. I think Bridgewater will outperform Tannehill this season, which would mean that he has progressed to a higher level in half the time. I think Carr should have a really good season especially when you take into consideration that he is playing for the Raiders. I think Mariota is a work in progress. I seen him make throws in the preseason that Tannehill still can't in his fourth season. I also seen Mariota make boneheaded decisions too but those decisions are easier to correct then all the things I believe Tannehill needs to work on.

                            At the end of the season I would not be surprised if Bridgewater and Carr have better numbers than Tannehill. I think Tannehill will outperform Mariota but in the long run Mariota has shown enough where I think he might have a higher ceiling. So far Tannehill, entering his FOURTH season, lacks leadership, has extreme difficulty on touch passes especially on throws over 20 yards, doesn't move around the pocket well, is terrible at sensing pressure, doesn't go through his progressions, etc. That is a lot to have to work on for a fourth year QB in my opinion. If he doesn't drastically improve on these things this season I am not sure he will ever get it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HndRkyaBong34 View Post


                              Have to disagree with you D1 on Marino being on the 9er's,, Marino would have never worked well in a WC offense, Dan was the best pocket passer but would have never survived the WC scheme.. Montana was the Master on rolling out and finding his target.. Dan never had the legs in that regard... Marino needed a Defense and the 9er's had both..
                              That's a fair point Rick. Let me clarify my statement just a tad. I'm not saying he would do better in that particular system but he would most assuredly have done better with all that talent around him that Montana had. Can you imagine Dan throwing to Rice or Taylor?? I drool at the very thought of it.
                              While it takes two to have an argument, it only takes one to walk away.

                              Comment

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