How Things Could Have Been Different

[DolphinsFreak]

It appears that not everyone in the Dolphins organization were sold on Ryan Tannehill being a potential franchise quarterback.

It's being reported that Coach Joe Philbin wanted to draft Derek Carr in the 1st round in 2014. Now THAT would have been a game changer and THAT proves that he was not sold on Tannehill, so I am curious if ANY of the other coaches on staff thought the same way Philbin did and got burned by their GM and VP?



"In 2014, only two years after the team made quarterback Ryan Tannehill a top-10 pick, Philbin wanted the team to use a first-round pick on quarterback Derek Carr. The past two seasons arguably have vindicated Philbin; Carr has shown considerable promise early in his career as a second-round pick of the Raiders, and most would regard Carr as having a higher ceiling than Tannehill."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/10/report-joe-philbin-wanted-to-replace-ryan-tannehill-with-derek-carr/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

[HndRkyaBong34]

Could brought in Kirk Cousins as well.... Hine sight is 20/20.. Even if we drafted Carr he would be a failure in Miami.... it starts at the top.. FO, coaching, players... in that order....

[DolphinsFreak]

We are not talking hindsight here. This is the head coach of the Miami Dolphins asking for the front office to bring in another quarterback, in the first round. That speaks VOLUMES about how he felt about Ryan Tannehill. If your head coach wants the front office to draft a quarterback in the 1st round they are letting you know they do NOT believe their current quarterback is a franchise quarterback or will ever be a franchise quarterback. If this story is true, it's not like Philbin is saying IF he had drafted Carr, he is saying he wanted Carr back in 2014 and his request was denied. Now, we are stuck with Tannehill and his ridiculous contract for another year or two. This is why Head Coaches want control, because their job is on the line when GM's make decisions that go against what they see on the field and on their roster. If the GM doesn't get them the players they want how are they supposed to do their job to the best of their ability?

[HndRkyaBong34]

Stop blaming RT and blame the root of the problem.. The FO, ownership and coaching.... I'm not a fan of RT but I wasn't a fan of Earl Morrall either.. It was Sherman who wanted RT and Philbin never questioned his mentor...

[Dolfan1]

Doesn't matter. Dan Marino would be booed off the field with this team. So Philbin got one call right in his four years here. Whoopie.

[HndRkyaBong34]

No doubt!!!!!!!!!!!

[HndRkyaBong34]

If you remember Earl Morrall Coming in for Bob .... coaching.... Good Coaching can make a average player better.. That's the difference... It's a team sport, all parts and pieces need to step it up for singular's to perform to their strength.. The Warriors are a good example....

[DolphinsFreak]

I agree that coaches matter. That is why I am so unhappy about the Gase hire. He will just be a Tannenbaum puppet. Gase will put together a coaching staff that is slightly better then Sherman's college staff so I think the Dolphins will be drafting in the top 10 for years to come.

[DolphinsFreak]

Not true. If I would have posted that Philbin wanted to replace Tannehill last summer people would have laughed and argued with me and told me how Philbin loved Tannehill. Now that the smoke is clearing and the TRUTH is coming out, there is no way for anyone to know just how many decisions that Philbin WANTED to do that got denied. I wasn't a fan of Philbin's but Carr looks like a franchise quarterback and they are hard to find. Tannehill is NOT a franchise quarterback even after four years of experience. SO, if Philbin were able to draft a franchise quarterback in 2014, that would have definitely changed the culture in Miami.

[HndRkyaBong34]

Bullygate would of never happened if we drafted Carr... Philbin sucked as a head coach.. He would of never got rid of the leadership committee if we drafted Carr.

[Tarpon Guide]

Doesn't matter. Dan Marino would be booed off the field with this team. So Philbin got one call right in his four years here. Whoopie.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[HndRkyaBong34]

Broken clock" haha

[Phintim Menace]

So Carr has "promise" while Tannehill only has "potential"? Sounds like to me two different terms for a player who hasn't done shat yet! In my opinion, that's further proof Philbin didn't know what he was doing! I would NOT trade Tannehill straight up for Carr today.

[DolphinsFreak]

So Carr has "promise" while Tannehill only has "potential"? Sounds like to me two different terms for a player who hasn't done shat yet! In my opinion, that's further proof Philbin didn't know what he was doing! I would NOT trade Tannehill straight up for Carr today.

Derek Carr - HIs First Two Seasons

2014 - 3,270 Yards Passing - 21 TD's - 12 INT's ( 9 More TD's Then Tannehill With 1 Less INT)

2015 - 3,987 Yards Passing - 32 TD's - 13 INT's ( 8 More TD's Then Tannehill With 4 Less INT's)


Ryan Tannehill - In His First Two Seasons

2012 - 3,294 - Yards Passing - 12 TD's - 13 INT's

2013 - 3,913 Yards Passing - 24 YD's - 17 INT's


It's clear that ONE of these quarterbacks in headed in the right direction, to becoming a Franchise Quarterback. Hate Philbin all you want, he was correct and Car would have been the better choice. It's not really that close.

[HndRkyaBong34]

Dereck Carr~49.2 QBR

Ryan Tannehill~43.1 QBR

Not really a difference maker and the differential could have to with coaching, Oline, WR's. play calling.... I don't see how Drafting Carr makes us a "better team".

[DolphinsFreak]

The playcalling could have been completely different if the Dolphins OC would have had a quarterback he had confidence in because that quarterback could make all the throws asked of him. I think Sherman and Lazor's playbooks were limited BECAUSE of Tannehill's weaknesses. Two OC's with playbook that are almost identical? I don't think so. I think these OC's had to dumb-down their playbooks because of Tannehill. With Carr they both could have opened up their playbooks and let the footballs fly. With all those added passing TD's the Dolphins would be winning more games, opening up the running game, etc. Carr could have made players better. Jordan Cameron is a Pro Bowl tight end but you barely heard his name called. I guarantee you that if Carr were behind center he would have relied heavily on Cameron when the pocket collapsed. Carr has great pocket awareness, he can throw the deep ball and has all the tangibles you want in a QB. Tannehill, in his fifth season, is still learning the ropes and getting on the job training.

[Dolfan1]

Lest we forget, Oakland also had their RB finish 6th over all in rushing yards and a better O-line. Have to take all that into consideration as well when you compare QB's.

[DolphinsFreak]

This isn't a Godfather moment. That would make Ross the .........I can't even type the word. This business isn't being run properly, if it were Tannenbaum would be swimming with the fishes by now, and NOBODY on this staff should have been safe. I still find it hard to believe that Campbell made the final cuts with the names that were on that list. The fans were lied to once again. Mediocrity here we come............wait..........we never left.

[HndRkyaBong34]

The sooner it fails, the sooner we see MT out the door....maybe as soon as December of this year..... Sitting at 2-14 might be okay with Ross though... Be nice if Chip Kelly goes to the Titans... My optional team....

[DolphinsFreak]

I think the trade off would be worth it in the long run. 2-14 and some heads should roll...............

[Alpha]

I just looked at the stats. Yes, Carr had a 2 POINT better QBR and did pass for more TDs. Tannehill threw for more yards and higher y/a. Carr's team has a decent OL. To get Carr we'd NOT have James at RT. Do you really think Carr behind an even worse OL than we have now would be more effective? Oakland has a decent team with talent on both sides of the ball. I think if we traded Carr for Tannehill straight up, Oakland would be even better next year. We've never seen what #17 can do when he's not getting sacked - because he's been given the f'ing David Carr treatment so far in his career. How he can pass for 4000 yards and 20+ TDs at a 2-1 TD ratio behind our NOLine makes me think he could be great if he got any help.

[DolphinsFreak]

I just looked at the stats. Yes, Carr had a 2 POINT better QBR and did pass for more TDs. Tannehill threw for more yards and higher y/a. Carr's team has a decent OL. To get Carr we'd NOT have James at RT. Do you really think Carr behind an even worse OL than we have now would be more effective? Oakland has a decent team with talent on both sides of the ball. I think if we traded Carr for Tannehill straight up, Oakland would be even better next year. We've never seen what #17 can do when he's not getting sacked - because he's been given the f'ing David Carr treatment so far in his career. How he can pass for 4000 yards and 20+ TDs at a 2-1 TD ratio behind our NOLine makes me think he could be great if he got any help.

What stats are you looking at?? Two point difference? I don't think so.

Here are Tannehill's QB ratings -
2012 - 76.1
2013 - 81.7
2014 - 92.8
2015 - 88.7

Here are Carr's QB Ratings -
2014 - 76.6
2015 - 91.1

Can you see how Carr's numbers jumped up and in his SECOND SEASON are better then Tannehill's in his FOURTH SEASON? I would gladly take Carr's 32 touchdowns in 2015 over Tannehill's 24 touchdowns and a 1.7 QBR. Yes, I would rather have Carr then James. The o-line sucks so whether or not they have James wouldn't make a difference. If they would have drafted Carr they would have used another draft pick on another Right Tackle. You can call up the Raiders right now and see if they will trade Derek Carr straight up for Ryan Tannehill. Please record the conversation so I can hear them laughing on the other side of that call. There is no way they are dumb enough to make that trade. Derek Carr IS a franchise quarterback in the making while Tannehill is still "trying" to learn how to play the position as if he were still in college. This franchise is a joke to have hired and fired so many coaches and players because of a wide receiver desperately trying to be a quarterback. He is playing out of position. He lacks the natural instincts to effectively play the quarterback position. He has no pocket presence, he still locks on to his receivers, he has gotten a little bit better on his deep passes and in his fourth season in the NFL he has FINALLY figured out what a touch pass in but he still isn't that good at throwing one. In his 4th season in the NFL Ryan Tannehill is still learning how to do the BASICS that he should have learned in High School. Sorry to break the news to you but Tannehill will NEVER take the Dolphins, or any other team, to the playoffs. He sucks and this organization has just made a HUGE mistake allowing Tannenbaum to hire a head coach because they think he can make Tannehill better. The Dolphins are destined to be mediocre for another 3-5 years.

[Alpha]

You don't see a ~2 point difference between 88.7 and 91.1? That's what I'm looking at. The year before, Tannehill had a 16 point better QBR. Over the 2 years Carr would have been here, Tannehill was far better year one and a tiny bit worse year two - while playing behind a significantly worse OL, being sacked 50% more than Carr. Think that might have impacted Carr's numbers? If so - advantage Tannehill.

As rookies (again with a better OL) Carr had a .5 QBR advantage. If that's worth giving up a 1st round starting RT over (which we need like a man lost in the desert needs water) then you may see it was a good idea to take Carr. Personally, I think your TanneHATE is blinding you.

[DolphinsFreak]

So you are going to resort to name calling just because I don't agree with your opinion about Tannehill, huh? Is this the part where I say I'm rubber and you're glue or where I say you have TanneLOVE? As I've already stated more than once, YOU can NOT change my opinion of Tannehill. There is only one person who can do that and it's Tannehill himself. How many Raiders games have you seen in the past two seasons? Stats don't tell all or paint the appropriate picture. Have you ever heard of game tape? Why do coaches watch game tape and not just look at stats? I live in California. I have watched more Raiders games then I care to mention. I have seen every single throw Tannehill has throw in his four years with the Dolphins and I've seen PLENTY of Carr's games and I can say without a doubt Carr is a WAY better passer and most importantly he is a NATURAL QUARTERBACK, and Tannehill is not and he never will be.