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  • Grier: From (another) one who knows

    https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...249425435.html

    I ask those who roast me..and a couple others here regarding what I feel is the continued pass given Chris Grier..after 11 years as head scout and 6 years in the FO....PLEASE take some time to read an extremely FAIR treatise written by one who knows more about this than ANYONE here.

    Excerpt..."For this reason significant portions of the public give Grier a pass for everything that happened in the 2016, 2017 and 2018 drafts. He gets not one, but three mulligans.

    The problem with this scoring is it’s not wholly accurate. Because Grier exerted significant power and was indeed the final say over those drafts.

    Don’t believe me. Believe Grier.

    I asked him directly in 2019 if it was fair to both credit and blame him for those three drafts.

    “Those were mine, absolutely,” Grier said."


  • #2
    This year MUST be Grier's best result..which, along with his 2020 draft we will fairly judge at year's end...including the worth of those 3 O-Line selections, Tua, and Iggy. I believe PFF...and others gave the 2020 draft a C.

    Like Ryan Fitzpatrick exerted too much influence in the locker room, I believe Grier has done the same with the Dolphins. As I said...IMO, Salguero bends over backwards to fairly present all the facts.

    I'm including this Topic, as I'm just a bit board with all the "I heard Watson will' conjecture. Watson isn't GM with the Fins, though undoubtedly he'd like to have been with his present team.

    Like it or not, Chris Grier IS the GM. For the team's sake, he must get those 1st and 2nd round picks correct. He really has about 8 players from which to choose. We all won't agree...just don't pick a receiver from Numbnuts St., or a project corner or safety...or a 5-9 "all purpose back" with only a slight case of the dropsies....but a Great story. How nice would it be to have a ROY? Haven't had one for 23 seasons. Raekwon made the All rookie team. That said, several teams had 3 make it, a few more had 2.

    Comment


    • #3
      Tunsil and Minkah were great picks but one was too good to pass up in a trade being also the hat it was a rebuild year and the other was traded and we took a loss on him because the player turned out to be a cry baby although super talented on the field.




      The deeper the roots, the higher the reach.

      Comment


      • AquaXI
        AquaXI commented
        Editing a comment
        If there’s a pick I’m super pissed about was Harris because we were all dumbfounded by this pick. We weekend warriors knew more on this pick then Grier who fell in love with character over physical talent on this one. T.J. was sitting there waiting to become a Dolphin!

      • PhinPhan68
        PhinPhan68 commented
        Editing a comment
        You are correct, Watt should have been the pick

    • #4
      You're love affair for Grier is creepy lol.. While Grier has hit some and missed others I don't know that his track record is as bad as you make it. Have you looked at other GM's and their draft successes and failures? I mean there are surprises and busts every year for every team. Name me a team that has not missed on a first round pick in the last decade. I'm not saying Grier is the best talent evaluator out there by any means, I'm just saying if you compare him to all the other 31 GM's and their draft records my bet is he's in the middle somewhere and not nearly as terrible as you claim in just about every post you make about him..

      Comment


      • Idahomer
        Idahomer commented
        Editing a comment
        Your thread, your research IMA lol.. And name them.. 15 better would still put Grier above right in the muddled middle like my post suggests.

      • Dolfan1
        Dolfan1 commented
        Editing a comment
        "Name one team who has had an employee in such important positions for 22 years."


        Challenge accepted.

        The New England Patriots. Bellychuckle has been a great coach but mediocre GM. His drafting has certainly been hit and miss but the one thing that saved him is every FA in the entire NFL has wanted to play for him (and with Brady) at a reduced cost to get a ring. Now without Brady to save his ass and less FA's wanting to play there, we'll truly see just how mediocre he really is.
        Last edited by Dolfan1; 02-25-2021, 01:48 PM.

      • IMAWriter
        IMAWriter commented
        Editing a comment
        Nay, sir. They had Actual, working GMS for 14 seasons. All the pro bowlers were drafted by the 2 GMs. Belicheat couldn't recognize a WR if it landed on his nose....yet he fought to get Randy Moss. They won with the RIGHT players. Notice how many took less money to stay in a more competitive situation.

    • #5
      2016 - Tunsil, Howard and Drake
      2017 - Harris, McMillian and Tankersley
      2018 - Fitzpatrick, Gesicki and Baker
      2019 - Wilkins, Deiter and Van Ginkle
      2020 - Tua, Jackson, Igbinoghene, Hunt and Davis

      Yeah, I am concerned that Grier could blow these early picks

      Comment


      • IMAWriter
        IMAWriter commented
        Editing a comment
        Trades included....Steelers, Chiefs, Packers, 49'ers, Rams, Vikings (Jeff Ireland!!), Colts, Saints, Titans, Bills, Seahawks (other than O-Line..check out the # of Pro Bowlers on defense), Browns (the past 3 years), Raiders...at least they DRAFTED All Pros..
        The fact is, Grier drafts and trades for GOOD players, not dynamic game changers...the Texans...Watt and Watson...WHENB have the Fins had that greatness via the draft?
        I guess my point is...all these teams have had ay least on RIY...some have had 2 and 3 the past decade...since Grier has been head scout and GM....20 million for Suh, 16 million for Wallace...
        Flowers, 10 million, Jones...paying him more than Howard. WHAT did Grier expect? These guys are, for the most part hormonally-ego filled. Now, Howard will want a renegotiation. What I'm saying, is Grier had better be right about the 3 amigo linemen, Iggy and Tua...and this next draft..or he should be gone.

      • Idahomer
        Idahomer commented
        Editing a comment
        IMA - Please tell me you didn't just make a point that Cleveland has had good drafts lol. Credibility factor zero if you're really trying to make that point. lol

      • IMAWriter
        IMAWriter commented
        Editing a comment
        Homer...I said their last 3 drafts...they have killed it...and stole Landry, and RB (from the Chiefs). Grier NEVER would have signed him.

    • #6
      Homer...you're cherry picking...and you made my point. For every Tunsil...who apparently wasn't good enough.....I can name 5 Chas Harris' .All you Grier supporters are kind of like that...posting a glass half full...when it's only a quarter full. The holy bible for some of y'all PFF (often quoted when it serves a purpose) rates the 2020 draft a C. Now I think it's unfair to grade it, based on a significant part of the draft regards positions of draft risk...O-Line, and QB. Another year is needed, especially under last year's circumstances. Still, my beef is WHY draft a LT when your QB is left handed? The 4th best LT, maybe the 5th best. All 3 guys sustained injuries, and missed games. I again repeat...no ROYS for 23 seasons...22 of which Grier was a part of the Dolphins scouting system, head scout and FO.

      If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, shits all over your boat deck like a duck......

      BTW, did ANY of y'all actually READ the column???

      Comment


      • Idahomer
        Idahomer commented
        Editing a comment
        Not sure if you noticed but they drafted a right tackle too.. FWIW...

      • IMAWriter
        IMAWriter commented
        Editing a comment
        I mean a REAL RT

    • #7
      It is irrelevant how many draft picks you get for a player

      It is what you do with those picks that make the trade worth it

      MFitz for Jackson? Mistake

      Tunsil and Stills for _______? Solomon Kindley and who else? Who's that? lol

      Comment


      • Idahomer
        Idahomer commented
        Editing a comment
        Solomon Kindley and #3 and #36 pick in this years draft so before you lol maybe you should see who we get with Houstons picks and then decide how bad a trade that was... And as for MFitz, kinda guessing they didn't want to trade him but he demanded out..

      • PhinPhan68
        PhinPhan68 commented
        Editing a comment
        If Grier does his job we both will be cheering, not laughing in disgust

        Pressure should be on him to hit home runs with these early picks

      • IMAWriter
        IMAWriter commented
        Editing a comment
        Homer...I never directly referred to the Texans trade. Only to the fact that you mentioned Tunsil as being a great selection...and I said they still traded him as "not worth the money"...but paid a CB with ZERO INTs 15 million. Don't forget Stills was productive for them 2 years ago.

    • #8
      Let’s at least give credit to Grier for not panicking and holding firm for Tua. We could have lost another 1st to move up from 5.
      The deeper the roots, the higher the reach.

      Comment


      • IMAWriter
        IMAWriter commented
        Editing a comment
        Well..even Mando knew the Chargers...the only other team interested in Tua (due to injury history and the usual NFL ethos) were going with Herbert. Mando was ...in print...pretty no-transparent in his preference for Herbert. So were the 2 other Dolphin writers. The Chargers just played the game.

      • IMAWriter
        IMAWriter commented
        Editing a comment
        In retrospect, would it have been so bad to have Herbert? Flo prolly would have had him bench warming anyhow.

      • AquaXI
        AquaXI commented
        Editing a comment
        I think as with Tua , Flores would have wanted to see what he has in Herbert and probably have him start at some point. You can say Flo MO.

    • #9
      Originally posted by PhinPhan68 View Post
      2016 - Tunsil, Howard and Drake
      2017 - Harris, McMillian and Tankersley
      2018 - Fitzpatrick, Gesicki and Baker
      2019 - Wilkins, Deiter and Van Ginkle
      2020 - Tua, Jackson, Igbinoghene, Hunt and Davis

      Yeah, I am concerned that Grier could blow these early picks
      2016 was a very good draft. X is right up there with Ramsey as the best DB's in the NFL. Tunsil was traded because we decided to tank in 2019 so keeping him made no sense since he was going to require a huge contract. I dont think he is worth as much as he makes but he a good OT. Drake was just never used properly in Miami and we never had a good enough OL for him to thrive.

      2017 was a horrific draft an absolute disaster.

      2018 was a good draft. Fitz is one of the best safeties in the NFL. Gesiski has steadily improved each year and Baker is a solid LB.

      2019 was a decent draft. Wilkins improved last year over his rookie year. Dieter seems better suited to play Center since he was a dissapointment at OG and Van Ginkle after doing nothing his rookie season actually made an impact last year.

      2020 The jury is still out. I still don't think we know about Tua, as of now it looks like we should have taken Herbert but lets see how Tua does this year. Jackson looks like a good OT and he still has room for improvement. Iggy was a mistake in my opinion when you consider the other players we could have taken and he didn't even play well as a rookie. Hunt, I believe is better suited as an OG since I think he struggled in pass protection at RT at times. I just don't think he is athletic enough to play the OT position. Davis was a solid pick. Hopefully he improves as much in his sophomore season as Wilkins did.

      These would be my grades for Grieir's previous 5 drafts as far as the top picks go.

      2016 A

      2017 F

      2018 B

      2019 C

      2020 C

      Comment


      • #10
        Originally posted by FTLDOLFAN View Post

        2016 was a very good draft. X is right up there with Ramsey as the best DB's in the NFL. Tunsil was traded because we decided to tank in 2019 so keeping him made no sense since he was going to require a huge contract. I dont think he is worth as much as he makes but he a good OT. Drake was just never used properly in Miami and we never had a good enough OL for him to thrive.

        2017 was a horrific draft an absolute disaster.

        2018 was a good draft. Fitz is one of the best safeties in the NFL. Gesiski has steadily improved each year and Baker is a solid LB.

        2019 was a decent draft. Wilkins improved last year over his rookie year. Dieter seems better suited to play Center since he was a dissapointment at OG and Van Ginkle after doing nothing his rookie season actually made an impact last year.

        2020 The jury is still out. I still don't think we know about Tua, as of now it looks like we should have taken Herbert but lets see how Tua does this year. Jackson looks like a good OT and he still has room for improvement. Iggy was a mistake in my opinion when you consider the other players we could have taken and he didn't even play well as a rookie. Hunt, I believe is better suited as an OG since I think he struggled in pass protection at RT at times. I just don't think he is athletic enough to play the OT position. Davis was a solid pick. Hopefully he improves as much in his sophomore season as Wilkins did.

        These would be my grades for Grieir's previous 5 drafts as far as the top picks go.

        2016 A

        2017 F

        2018 B

        2019 C

        2020 C
        Thinking the other thing to look at besides the picks

        Why are so many of these players NOT Dolphins

        These picks were made by Grier and sent packing by Grier

        Again, what did the Phins get in exchange for these picks

        This draft will be telling as far as the Tunsil trade is concerned

        Agree with you grading scale as far as drafting goes

        Comment


        • #11
          Originally posted by PhinPhan68 View Post

          Thinking the other thing to look at besides the picks

          Why are so many of these players NOT Dolphins

          These picks were made by Grier and sent packing by Grier

          Again, what did the Phins get in exchange for these picks

          This draft will be telling as far as the Tunsil trade is concerned

          Agree with you grading scale as far as drafting goes
          Some of these players that Grier drafted are no longer Dolphins either because they were busts in some cases, not good fits in other cases or the Dolphins could not get them to play to their potential.

          Fitzpatrick netted us Austin Jackson. I would say Minkah is a better S than Jackson is an OT but the trade worked out okay for the Dolphins, at least we got a quality starter out of it at a premier position. I forget who we drafted with the Drake pick so its probably not a player of significance.

          Yes the Tunsil picks will be very telling. Those are 2 massive chips, the #3 and #36 picks in the draft. We cant afford to screw those up.

          Comment


          • IMAWriter
            IMAWriter commented
            Editing a comment
            I was thinking it was Van Ginkle for Drake? Not positive at all. Agree as to quality of position re Jackson. I just hope we got quality of PLAYER.

        • #12
          Originally posted by FTLDOLFAN View Post

          Some of these players that Grier drafted are no longer Dolphins either because they were busts in some cases, not good fits in other cases or the Dolphins could not get them to play to their potential.

          Fitzpatrick netted us Austin Jackson. I would say Minkah is a better S than Jackson is an OT but the trade worked out okay for the Dolphins, at least we got a quality starter out of it at a premier position. I forget who we drafted with the Drake pick so its probably not a player of significance.

          Yes the Tunsil picks will be very telling. Those are 2 massive chips, the #3 and #36 picks in the draft. We cant afford to screw those up.
          1. Busts
          2. Not Good Fits
          3. Could not get them to play to their potential

          I listed players drafted in rounds 1 and 2 by Grier

          A bust in rounds 1-2 is inexcusable
          He should know if they are good fits or not
          First two rounds should be great players, not potentially great

          I am worried that Grier will trade out of the #3 position

          He will then draft two lesser players

          Those players will not be Phins in 3 seasons

          Why not grab The Best _____ @ 3 (insert the position)

          Best TE, Best WR, best LB etc. at 3 that fit into Phins plans

          Comment


          • #13
            Originally posted by PhinPhan68 View Post

            1. Busts
            2. Not Good Fits
            3. Could not get them to play to their potential

            I listed players drafted in rounds 1 and 2 by Grier

            A bust in rounds 1-2 is inexcusable
            He should know if they are good fits or not
            First two rounds should be great players, not potentially great

            I am worried that Grier will trade out of the #3 position

            He will then draft two lesser players

            Those players will not be Phins in 3 seasons

            Why not grab The Best _____ @ 3 (insert the position)

            Best TE, Best WR, best LB etc. at 3 that fit into Phins plans
            68...What we both have been saying. 2 goods don't equal one GREAT. Just get one great every other year. Every year if you're are drafting early and often in consecutive years...as have the Dolphins. Only once or twice the past 6-7 years have the Fins had a 1st round pick later than #16. The record shows the Dolphins haven't drafted enough GREATS...at least not that are still playing in Joe
            Robbie. To be fair, the coaching in Miami has been sub-great...perhaps sub-GOOD in a decade or more. Nearly zero player development. Flo has, IMO changed that significantly. Guys like Van Ginkle, Seiler, Beigle, Baker, even Davis.

            BUT...notice what we have here??? ALL DEFENSIVE IMPROVEMENT. Geiscki's improvement has been good, but slow. Parker...no better, the O-Line? Work in progress...but WHERE is the O-Line guru? It's been a cluster of hirings and firings. Same with OC's. Similar with RB coach. Gailey's run game was prehistoric in scheme. I believe Flo...as evidenced by the "dueling OCs" has given short shrift to the offense. Hopefully, there will be ZERO defensive backs selected in the Fins first 4 picks. I believe they do have to address the Howard possible contract thing...so I believe they may go CB/Safety in the 3rd and 4th rounds...though I really like Branden Jones. Just looks like a baller. Good pick there.

            Comment


            • #14
              Originally posted by IMAWriter View Post

              68...What we both have been saying. 2 goods don't equal one GREAT. Just get one great every other year. Every year if you're are drafting early and often in consecutive years...as have the Dolphins. Only once or twice the past 6-7 years have the Fins had a 1st round pick later than #16. The record shows the Dolphins haven't drafted enough GREATS...at least not that are still playing in Joe
              Robbie. To be fair, the coaching in Miami has been sub-great...perhaps sub-GOOD in a decade or more. Nearly zero player development. Flo has, IMO changed that significantly. Guys like Van Ginkle, Seiler, Beigle, Baker, even Davis.

              BUT...notice what we have here??? ALL DEFENSIVE IMPROVEMENT. Geiscki's improvement has been good, but slow. Parker...no better, the O-Line? Work in progress...but WHERE is the O-Line guru? It's been a cluster of hirings and firings. Same with OC's. Similar with RB coach. Gailey's run game was prehistoric in scheme. I believe Flo...as evidenced by the "dueling OCs" has given short shrift to the offense. Hopefully, there will be ZERO defensive backs selected in the Fins first 4 picks. I believe they do have to address the Howard possible contract thing...so I believe they may go CB/Safety in the 3rd and 4th rounds...though I really like Branden Jones. Just looks like a baller. Good pick there.
              It would be nice if the O could keep up with the D

              The O needs to be addressed early and often

              Prefer Quality over Quantity

              Feel trading out of the top 10 is a mistake

              Comment


              • #15
                I have taken a survey of Dolphans asking them how important it was and how they felt on Miami not having a ROY and the drafts of 2016, 2017 and 2018. The response was overwhelming (everyone) saying Not at all and Could not care less or,in other words saying the same. Most added that we started over two years ago and since then we won 5 and 10 games from nothing. We are all very happy and excited on seeing all our young players develop as well as this years off season.

                Also added was that fans wanting to continue to complain and refusing to move on should find another team or sport. Tennis Anyone?

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH8yt71CDNU

                Sometimes a video says it best. :-)

                Comment


                • IMAWriter
                  IMAWriter commented
                  Editing a comment
                  And sometimes it doesn’t. Freedom of speech. Maybe you move on if you find my point of view
                  disturbing. My opinion regarding the record of the FO the past decade is supported by facts. There are maybe half the 32 teams have the same issues with THEIR front offices. I only care about ours. I hope ours hits a home run. They had better, or the rebuild would have been for nought.

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