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Thoughts on OL, FA's, and Young Guys?

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  • Thoughts on OL, FA's, and Young Guys?

    Coming into this season I thought that if Albert were healthy, we would be OK with Pouncey, James, and two of the three young guys in Dallas, Douglas, and Turner. The reality has been that Albert was not ready and now much better, Pouncey has been great, James was pretty good but injured, and the young guys have been so-so.

    Not only do the five have to click together (which they have not had a chance to do) but, Tannehill and Miller have to know what to expect them to do (which they have not had time to do). Not making excuses, this is OL reality.

    FA's take some time to adapt and fit in to a new team, which has been proven over the years. Cameron is having problems, Stills is finally starting to show something, Suh is now looking like the Manster we expected, with ups and downs from the rest of our FA signings in the secondary and even special teams.

    Some of our young guys are showing some good stuff but, this also is taking time. Parker has done nothing but, the team has not suffered with the play of Matthews. AJ is turning heads to go with Miller as he is now healthy, Turner is showing promise, and the LB's and DB's appear to have started fitting in.

    This is not what our expectations were starting this year but, some good things which have recently come into play. Maybe they surprise us the rest of this season.

  • #2
    Agree on Albert and James. Dallas has picked his game up, but is still a liability. IMO, Pouncey has been far from great. His shotgun snaps in key situations are often errant and he particularly struggled a lot in the Eagles game and was responsible at least 1 sack and Miller getting caught behind the LOS on the opening drive. Albert called him out as well over his lack of focus and dedication.

    Billy Turner is as bad as Dallas Thomas IMO, but some of that might be negated if we'd stop drafting LTs or LGs and putting them into them into the mix on the right side in a ZBS.

    Tannehill is almost identical to where he was last year. So far he has 15 TDs and 9 INTs. Last year, he was 15 TDs and 7 INTs at this stage. Hard to gauge him in a vacuum with as bad as the OL has been at times with Albert and James out being out. He missed an open Stills in the EZ against the Eagles by putting the ball on him instead of in front of him. I don't fault him when guys aren't open, or he's under duress, but he has to make that throw on a consistent basis. Same with the sideline pass on the opening drive to Miller. Miller made the catch, but had to slow and catch it at his shoulder. Another yard in front of him and that was an easy TD.

    We still have erratic TE play. Expected more from the TE spot with Cameron replacing Clay, but that's been a wash. Same result, but again Cameron is having to block more this season.

    Miller has been good and I expect us to resign him. Ajayi is as advertised and should get more touches. Really like the combo of the two and what they can do for us going forward.

    Parker should start getting more snaps going forward. Matthews is still inconsistent, but when he's ''on'', he's good. Catch for catch, Stills has been better than Wallace. Suh is Suh. He's freeing up other guys and they are all playing better with him free to attack a gap now and be the guy we thought he was coming in. He's currently our leading active ''sacker'' with 4. Haven't given up on Chris McCain. He practiced this week some at OLB, so that bears watching.

    LBs are a liability. Misi is average when healthy. Jenkins is good when healthy, but the rest should be rattling cans off the back of a truck somewhere. The UDFAs; Vigil, Hewitt, and Hull, may show something promising as the season progresses, but not so much right now.

    CBs haven't been good. Grimes has been injured most of the season with knee and rib injuries. Taylor is erratic. Brice McCain bad. Bowman an afterthought. The guy showing the most promise to me is the rookie, Bobby McCain.

    I hope they ALL improve from here on out, including our fledgling HC. They season isn't lost yet, but it only get's harder from here on out. At least we're playing at home this game. 7 of our last 9 games have been on the road and 1 of the 2 homes were with lifeless Joe Philbin at HC. Here's hoping Dan, whom I count in as one of the ''young guys'', gets us another win this Sunday.

    Comment


    • #3
      Did you gents watch the game last night...first time i saw AJ Cann play - I know a lot us were expecting us to pick him in the 2nd round. The kid played well, but it was against the Titans - not sure what to expect about.

      Two areas, for some reason the current front office believes should be ignored in the draft are Free Safety and G.

      We haven't picked a legit top Guard or FS with our first or 2nd round pick since Saban. The crazy thing, is all other team do. Don't even get me started on LB.

      At what point do you think the scouting department should get a face lift....The Dolphins think that they can find diamonds in the rough, guess that these player can be legit, rather than investing in strong players that can make a difference.

      Point in case...Johnathan Cyprien..Why we didnt draft him...no idea...but the kid looks legit.

      Comment


      • cuchulainn
        cuchulainn commented
        Editing a comment
        You make some good points - but then again, they had to allow both Dallas and Turner to have a legit shot of locking a position before moving on. Both are probably no better than depth at this point, but at least now they've each had a legit shot. I won't be surprised to see us take a guard in first 3 rounds.

        Agree on FS and LB. I've wanted a 1st round LB for the past 3 years. This appears to be a strong DE draft. I could see us going CB, DE, and LB at the top of the draft.

    • #4
      The O line is going to depend on who the coach is and what he wants to run. If he wants to run a ZBS then you really just need to upgrade Thomas, and make sure you have a swing tackle that can actually fill in and do something. Thomas is fine for depth, but if he is starting there is an issue.

      Now if a coach comes in that wants to run a power blocking scheme then the line is FUBAR. Turner and Douglas are the only linemen that could fit in that scheme.

      So there lies the catch 22. Do you bring a coach in that can use the players on the roster and run a successful scheme? I truly think Turner could play LT in a power run scheme and I think Douglas can be a good LG in that same scheme. However, Pouncey is not the center you want, nor is Thomas, James, and even Albert. Those three guys are good (well Thomas isn’t good) at getting to the second level but not good at blowing d linemen off the LOS.

      So it’s going to come down to Ross and Tannebaum thinking they and retool and not rebuild and win…or do they just blow it up? My guess is they think they can retool with a few pieces here and there. I think they will go hard after Sean Payton, and wouldn’t be shocked if he lands in Miami.

      I am not opposed to retooling the offense and sticking with a ZBS, but it must be more aggressive than what they run now. The bigger push need to be on defense. Right now they have to upgrade CB, DE, LB, and FS.

      At first I was thinking to let Grimes walk next year, but I am starting to think like Sobe (God that’s scary in itself) and that replacing him is going to cost more and probably a lesser product. That’s why I think Miami MUST draft a CB in rounds 1 or 2 and develop them to take over for Grimes in 2017.

      I am not as opposed to Michael Thomas at FS as Cuch is. I think he has played well for his first time in extended playing time. I want to continue to evaluate him as the season goes. Maybe now that Bahamas has woken up from his Kalik induced coma he can keep an eye on the kid and tell us what he sees and I respect his opinion on DB’s better then pretty much any of the national media.

      Defensive end will be tough. I think Fede can be a good quality starter and Shelby is a good rotation guy. If Wake can come back next year and be a situational guy at a reduced cost that may buy them a year to draft someone and develop. Who knows maybe a real coach can come in here and actually make something of Jordan…not holding my breath there.

      Miami will need to draft a LB and look for a free agent. Bottom line is the LB group must get better. Jenkins is a keeper and with a better group he will be fine. Misi is Misi, he’s just there and does nothing special and Sheppard is just horrible. I have not been that impressed with Vigil and have only seen Hull last week. I did like some of the things I liked from Hewitt, but not sure what we have there.

      Comment


      • So Be
        So Be commented
        Editing a comment
        "At first I was thinking to let Grimes walk next year, but I am starting to think like Sobe (God that’s scary in itself) and that replacing him is going to cost more and probably a lesser product. That’s why I think Miami MUST draft a CB in rounds 1 or 2 and develop them to take over for Grimes in 2017."

        No reason to be scared Shane. Never said that, and I'm all for moving Grimes.
        Last edited by So Be; 11-21-2015, 12:14 PM.

      • cuchulainn
        cuchulainn commented
        Editing a comment
        Agree with most of this. Hope I'm wrong on Thomas. Would love to see him develop like Jones did, who took a few seasons. Thomas is 25 and is in his 4rd season - 3rd with us. If he improves, it would be huge boon, but I'm not feeling him. I just see him as better than Aikens, who is terrible.

    • #5
      Our blocking scheme has to go. I've never seen so many unaccounted for guys coming across the line of scrimmage. Benton should have been the first guy fired followed by Lazor who never got it fixed followed next by Campbell if he just stands pat and does nothing to right the ship by season's end. I say draft two more OL because you need as many high caliber OL competing and being able to step in when necessary but I do believe our OL aren't as bad as our coaching staff makes them look. Plus, It's time to start grooming our future LT. If we get him up to speed quickly we can even take a look at moving Branden Albert in to LG. Like Tannehill has to know what his OL are doing, they must have faith that he will properly read the rush, slide around and help THEM in protection. He has the worst pocket presence of any starting NFL Quarterback I've ever seen. All those years he was organizing his receivers to throw to in the off-season, I said he should have been having film room study and off-season pass rush drills with his OL. The sad part is neither him nor his coaches recognize and have addressed his glaring shortcomings.
      Last edited by kelbail21; 11-20-2015, 02:50 PM.

      Comment


      • #6
        http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/2...enton-to-serve

        Something to consider on the OL. Benton has 23 years of coaching the OL, is very well respected, and has a proven track record. Philbin was an OL coach for many a year. Tannenbaum has at least seen VG OL play with the Jets, Lazor has been a coach in seeing a great OL in Philly, and Campbell has also seen his fair share of VG OL play Combined they total over a century of OL experience.

        So, what is going wrong? And why do some fans think they know more than guys who individually forgot more than any fan knows on the OL? Some question guys on the OL on footwork, etc. Anyone really believe this is a revelation to what coaches have not seen?

        I do not have any answer other than players play and why they were picked but, cannot fault coaching and the overall OL knowledge of the team. JMO

        Comment


        • Phintim Menace
          Phintim Menace commented
          Editing a comment
          Very good points indeed. However, as fans we sometimes see the forest rather than the trees. The end results are the OL is not getting the job done and haven't for years. Yet these gurus with a century of experience don't seem to be able to fix it. Personally, I think the ZBS is a gimmick like the 46 defense or the wildcat offense whose time has passed. Philly and Seattle are also struggling with it this year. DCs have figured it out, let it go into extinction where it belongs!

      • #7
        Originally posted by So Be View Post
        http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/2...enton-to-serve

        Something to consider on the OL. Benton has 23 years of coaching the OL, is very well respected, and has a proven track record. Philbin was an OL coach for many a year. Tannenbaum has at least seen VG OL play with the Jets, Lazor has been a coach in seeing a great OL in Philly, and Campbell has also seen his fair share of VG OL play Combined they total over a century of OL experience.

        So, what is going wrong? And why do some fans think they know more than guys who individually forgot more than any fan knows on the OL? Some question guys on the OL on footwork, etc. Anyone really believe this is a revelation to what coaches have not seen?

        I do not have any answer other than players play and why they were picked but, cannot fault coaching and the overall OL knowledge of the team. JMO
        It's a very good question Joe; seems like we've been trying to build a decent OLine for the last decade or two...Sometimes i wonder if our scouting dept. & draft team would recognize a good OLineman if he ran up on 'em & pancaked 'em! Are we just always picking up guys who can't play at the next level?? There has to be a legitimate reason why we can't ever, and i mean EVER put together anything more than a rag-tag, mediocre line...

        Comment


        • #8
          Btw, not sure anyone caught it but we waived Sam Brenner the other day hoping to slide him back onto the PS, but Denver picked him up on waivers..Will probably go on to thrive there...

          Comment


          • cuchulainn
            cuchulainn commented
            Editing a comment
            Won't be surprised. I liked Brenner at LG a few years ago. He was nimble and quick and I thought he played with leverage. He had some good blocks that I recall. I'll be watching to see how he does with Denver.

        • #9
          http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../mia/draft.htm

          Hey Mon, here's the Dolphins draft history. Where and when did you see better options AT THE TIME? Many want to be experts in hindsight but, every pick in the top two rounds were very highly regarded by all teams and other "experts."

          There is no legit reason why we have been so dreadful in the draft, other than the Football Gods still hating us for the Shula deal or, just some unbelievably BAD LUCK.

          Comment


          • #10
            Originally posted by Driven_Phinsane! View Post

            It's a very good question Joe; seems like we've been trying to build a decent OLine for the last decade or two...Sometimes i wonder if our scouting dept. & draft team would recognize a good OLineman if he ran up on 'em & pancaked 'em! Are we just always picking up guys who can't play at the next level?? There has to be a legitimate reason why we can't ever, and i mean EVER put together anything more than a rag-tag, mediocre line...
            If we go back a ways, Carey and Long were the best bookends in the NFL. Jerry was horrible on the run but VG in pass protect. Pouncey was a good pick. Cog was a good signing, Albert was a pretty good signing. James can be a VG signing. Lot's of talent but, no stability in coaching or system. Players are overpriced babies who are locked in to doing the same thing every day. Change throws that all to hell.

            Ross came close to some stability in Philbin, who I did not like, but then there was the forced move on a new OC and a lack of confidence show.

            We do not have the talent for a Harbough turnaround, and need to give a new HC 3 years to show what he can do, and then another 2 to put it into consistent play. Don't know who the "Savior" may be in this situation, and even if he has a fighting chance.

            We may sneak into the playoffs this year. IF so, it will be the lack of good teams as opposed to actually being good. Change is needed.

            Comment


            • Driven_Phinsane!
              Driven_Phinsane! commented
              Editing a comment
              Long was beast when he was healthy, but when he got hurt he went downhill pretty quick..Carey was good but since we gave up a pick to move up a space to grab him all while missing out on Vince Wilfork, i never liked him as much as i should of, lol. Jerry sucked for us & wherever he went..Pouncey is VG with the talent if not the heart & commitment to be great..Cog was decent but IMO never as good as i thought he was gonna be for us. Albert is really good when he's 100%, which is like never, James is decent but already seems like he's always hurt...Still think we don't spot talent very well & we especially seem to have a hard-on for damaged goods..but i hear you loud & clear on the lack of stability!

          • #11
            I did a half ass write up/thread, well post, on our failures of the ZBS a while back and it points out step by step how we have failed to be a good unit. One thing that Campbell has done/doing is getting the right mindset for trench play and that is rule number 1 that Phailbin, well, FAILED at. The 90s Broncos ran down your throat without an Olineman even being 300lbs because of scheme and the most important part being AGGRESSIVE badasses.

            Comment


            • #12
              O-line. I would address this in free agency. I would look to sign a starting OG maybe someone like Alex Boone. That would leave Thomas Turner and Douglas left to battle for the other OG position. I would also look to upgrade our backup OT position from Jason Fox in free agency. I would keep Albert for another year. If he is healthy he is good.

              WR. I would like to resign Matthews but that might be difficult. At least we have Parker so if he turns out to be as good as we think he will then we will be fine. We still have Landry and Stills at a low cost. Jennings should be released. Hazel might be brought back.

              TE. Unless Cameron starts to produce more I don't know how we can bring him back at his salary. There might be cheaper options in free agency like Ladarius Green. Sims will be back and Stoneburner is not a bad #3 TE.

              QB. Tannehill is going to be back. I would draft a QB in the later rounds and sign a low priced free agent backup. I don't think Moore is worth bringing back.

              DT. We have Suh and Phillips for sure. I am disappointed with Mitchell so he might be released. I might even bring Mosley back for another year on the cheap. So we need to add another DT either in free agency or the draft.

              DE. Fede is the only certain player that will return next year. I would let OV walk and resign Shelby. I would release Wake and see if we can bring him back as a 3rd down pass rusher at a much reduced cost. I would definitely draft a DE and look to sign another free agent DE.

              DB. I would release Grimes and draft a DB in the first 2 rounds of the draft and maybe sign another free agent DB. We still have Taylor and both McCains back.

              S. We have Jones who is pro bowl caliber and I would try to sign Gipson in free agency but if we can't then we should draft a FS in the early or middle rounds.

              LB. Hopefully Jordan gets his act together and we realize he is best suited to be our SAM LB. I would draft or sign a free agent ILB and we have Jenkins. I would release Misi.

              Comment


              • #13
                Some really great analysis in this thread. Not overly optimistic or pessimistic, just nuts and bolts reality of this team's play. I would add the following.

                Matthews is NOT a replacement for Parker. The Dolphins have never had that top flight WR that Parker is supposed to be. I have mad respect for Landry for his effort and dedication to his craft. But Parker is bigger, faster and has better skills overall. Duper and Clayton were products of the Marino magic. Warfield was great, but an entirely different era, wouldn't compare to Parker. So Matthews has been a surprising relief to the lack of Parker production, but he will never be a replacement for Parker. That's like saying Vernon is the replacement for Wake as a pass rusher, he just isn't.

                I have seen centers struggle with snaps before when they have a difficult assignment. For example, if Pouncey is assigned the Mike LB to block on a play, and the MLB lines up offset behind the DE. The center is so distracted by trying to get moving outside and second level as quickly as possible to catch someone smaller and faster than he is anyway that they lose focus on the snap. Is this the center's fault or the play design / blocking scheme? Shouldn't that scenario require a line call by Pouncey? Is he allowed to make a line call? Does he not adjust the blocking because he is trying too hard to "help" the rest of the line, so he reaches for blocks that he shouldn't? Hard to say, I just don't know enough about his assignments on those particular plays. But I never once got the impression that he was lazy, didn't care or wasn't an aggressive competitor.

                I also notice that overall in this thread we have used all 72 of our first and second round draft picks next year, lol. If only it were that easy. By the time we finish analyzing the team, we have drafted 2 each, at all 22 starting positions in the first 2 rounds next year. Certain members here have us trading all of our draft picks, for the right to chose "any college prospect QB" to replace Tannehill. But unfortunately, we only have 1 #1 and 1 #2 next year. And we better NOT spend either on a QB with as many other glaring needs as we have.

                Comment


                • #14
                  If goofball's crack was aimed at my analysis, which was the only one that pointed out a particular failure that our OL continues to repeat, I'll take it for what it is. He's been known to come in and blast people even when it became apparent FOR ALL TO SEE that he was dead wrong. We have had the worst OL in the league, or close to it, for quite some time (unless we are conceding that Tannehill IS responsible for nearly half of his career sacks) no matter who we put in. Is it wrong to point out things that I watch over and over again on tape? It's fact. I'm not against a ZBS. I'm against our ZBS and our inability to make adjustments to account for different defensive alignments the same way I get furious that we have a high 1st round, 4th year QB that can't make an adjustment at the line of scrimmage to adjust to an obvious all out blitz. Adjustments, schematic and strategic, are what I hope to see out of Benton, Lazor and Campbell. Doing it wrong harder will never make it right. We've been made to look like a high school team at times this year. They paid Pouncey $10 million a year so I'm assuming he's making the correct calls. So then where does the blame lie? I'm not talking about the poor blocks or the bad feet. I thought Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner had cleaned that up. That's what the 100 year Gurus told us. Then we have to believe them, right? I'm talking about guys left unaccounted for and the impossible blocks our OL are expected to make. It's as obvious as Mike Wallace's inability to raise his hands over his head to catch a ball over a DB.

                  Comment


                  • Phintim Menace
                    Phintim Menace commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Well said, there is a consistent problem no matter who is playing, and it's not new.

                • #15
                  Originally posted by kelbail21 View Post
                  If goofball's crack was aimed at my analysis, which was the only one that pointed out a particular failure that our OL continues to repeat, I'll take it for what it is. He's been known to come in and blast people even when it became apparent FOR ALL TO SEE that he was dead wrong. We have had the worst OL in the league, or close to it, for quite some time (unless we are conceding that Tannehill IS responsible for nearly half of his career sacks) no matter who we put in. Is it wrong to point out things that I watch over and over again on tape? It's fact. I'm not against a ZBS. I'm against our ZBS and our inability to make adjustments to account for different defensive alignments the same way I get furious that we have a high 1st round, 4th year QB that can't make an adjustment at the line of scrimmage to adjust to an obvious all out blitz. Adjustments, schematic and strategic, are what I hope to see out of Benton, Lazor and Campbell. Doing it wrong harder will never make it right. We've been made to look like a high school team at times this year. They paid Pouncey $10 million a year so I'm assuming he's making the correct calls. So then where does the blame lie? I'm not talking about the poor blocks or the bad feet. I thought Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner had cleaned that up. That's what the 100 year Gurus told us. Then we have to believe them, right? I'm talking about guys left unaccounted for and the impossible blocks our OL are expected to make. It's as obvious as Mike Wallace's inability to raise his hands over his head to catch a ball over a DB.

                  I'm not sure who you're referring to in this post but was it really necessary to go the name calling route? It's peaceful here or relatively so and I'm sure Matt would like to keep it that way. You're an intelligent poster and I think you can make your point without disrespecting another poster. My 2 cents.

                  Comment

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